Allright people, it is EGYPT! - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2011, 13:30 Thread Starter
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Allright people, it is EGYPT!

I am like millions others of Arab people are following the developments in Egypt worried about the situation in Egypt.

I salute all those protesters against a dictator who hungered his people for 30 years, Egypt the country that has all kinds of elements to become one of the biggest countries in the world, rich in everything but the corrupted regime, has 40% under poverty line, 9.7% unemployment, 12.8 inflation, people can't find bread to eat, watch to drink, living in the most inhumanly kind of lives!

A president who turned the country into his and his sons company, stealing every single penny of its resources, treating his people with the most kinds of patronization and debasing!

Right now, the situation is for the good of the people, I hope they keep it for another couple of days because this son of a bitch will not last for that long!

Causalities are now over 100 killed and 2000 injured and this son of a bitch thinks that it is OKAY! Screw him, drag him in the streets and make an example of his arse!

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EGYPTIANS!!!!

I know it is not allowed to start such threads but guys: IT IS EGYPT!

Vamos Argentina!

Last edited by Assassin; January 30th, 2011 at 13:35.
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post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2011, 22:59
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I wish I could get in amongst it. :fero:

Good post, power to the people!

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post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 00:36
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It is funny how giddy with excitement people are about these protests. As if after the protests anything will actually change. Governments don't happen in a vacuum separate from their peoples.

What bothers me most about Mubarak is his selfishness in trying to stay in power even though the public does not want him. What makes it worse is that it has gotten to a point where people are on the streets willing to risk their very lives to get rid of him, yet he still tries to cling to power.

Now on to the protesters on the streets who want Mubarak out, how they're crying for more transparency and democratic norms. Take any one of those protesters, any random one and make them president. If a moment comes where the people don't want that person, I would bet my left foot that random person would also cling to power as Mubarak does.

It is not simply Mubarak, or the Egyptian government that is that way. The problem is deeper and more cultural and needs to be addressed before any progress can be made.

How many people can name one Arab leader across the whole region that has actually stepped down from power without being forced out, exiled or assasinated. Do people truly believe Mubarak is one of a kind, or some sort of anamoly in the region that happens in a vacuum?

This revolution will do nothing, 5 years down the line we'll look back and realize another "strongman" is running Egypt. For better or worse.

Untill the people of the region start to accept the true problems instead of just pointing at the symptoms of the disease (Mubarak), nothing will ever change.

A wise man once said people get the leadership they deserve.

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post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 00:42
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Untill the people of the region start to accept the true problems instead of just pointing at the symptoms of the disease (Mubarak), nothing will ever change.

A wise man once said people get the leadership they deserve.
That's exactly right especially the last bit and also the rest of your post is spot on as well.

Sometimes though there's not much left to undertake apart from what's happening now, what other possible actions/outcomes are there really?

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post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 02:28
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I think what it boils down to is not just revolution on the streets. What it boils down to is cultural revolution.

No public will ever have a regular revolution untill they admit something is wrong with the way the country is governed.

Same principle with a cultural revolution. It cannot possibly start untill the fact there is a problem is admitted. Trouble is admitting such a thing is very difficult on any civilization. It is always easier to have conspiracy theories and or point to finger to external forces for your woes.

It is an extremely painful process and eventually it will have to happen and it will happen. I would just prefer it to start sooner rather than later. I would very much so like to see real change in the middle east for one reason. To better the lives of the average people there.

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post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 02:37
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That's right man. One point I'd make is the Arab people in general being hot blooded will not think cultural revolution first as opposed to a revolt on the streets and that's exactly what you've outlined. This is not a criticism but just how things are as logic or lateral thinking quite often don't apply to this part of the world unfortunately. Sure there are external forces and even conspiracy theories to an extent but they're not the sole problem, there are various issues at hand. If the people and the nation are strong the two influences don't come into play as much. It takes a lot of self-science and really depends on how confrontational people want to get with themselves, I know that's philosophical but it's a good place to start.

What are your thoughts on the change of the political climate of Turkey since the early 90s to now?

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post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 03:28
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Everything has a beginning.

Cultural revolution has been happening for years in the arab world. This is the age of technology, the internet and stellite tv. This is a new generation different from the previous which was raised on false propaganda and conspiracy theories. This generation has nothing in common. They are hungry for change and willing to sacrifice to make it happen. Something however needed to happen to start the chain reaction. Hopefully that is it.
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post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 03:36
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Something however needed to happen to start the chain reaction. Hopefully that is it.
:hopeful:

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post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 03:44
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Everything has a beginning.

Cultural revolution has been happening for years in the arab world. This is the age of technology, the internet and stellite tv. This is a new generation different from the previous which was raised on false propaganda and conspiracy theories. This generation has nothing in common. They are hungry for change and willing to sacrifice to make it happen. Something however needed to happen to start the chain reaction. Hopefully that is it.
In my opinion it will take 3 or 4 generations (atleast), to bring about the type of cultural and mentality changes neccessary.

But again Insallah I am wrong and you are right. Hopefully this specific generation now you speak of will jump ahead leaps and bounds. Unlikely though if you look at human history. It is an extremely long and painful process as I alluded to earlier. And sometimes it starts getting worse before it gets beter.

Either way my prayers go out to all those in Egypt out there struggling for a better life, via better government. May they get what they wish for.

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post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 03:45
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post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 03:47
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What are your thoughts on the change of the political climate of Turkey since the early 90s to now?
I think it might be a tad bit disrespectful to the thread if I sat here and explained my opinion on the Turkish experience on a thread dedicated to what is going on in Egypt.

How ever if our Arabic hosts here, later in the discussion ask for imput about the Turkish experience pertaining to open democracy in a Muslim nation, I would be more than willing to share my opinions.

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post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 03:57
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In my opinion it will take 3 or 4 generations (atleast), to bring about the type of cultural and mentality changes neccessary.

But again Insallah I am wrong and you are right. Hopefully this specific generation now you speak of will jump ahead leaps and bounds. Unlikely though if you look at human history. It is an extremely long and painful process as I alluded to earlier. And sometimes it starts getting worse before it gets beter.

Either way my prayers go out to all those in Egypt out there struggling for a better life, via better government. May they get what they wish for.
I don't expect things to change between today and tomorrow. There will be a transiotion phase and maybe things will get worse before they get better. But I do believe we live in an age with unprecedented circumstances . What took years to spread in the past can be spread in hours by a facebook page or a tweet. Idologies are changing fast becuase exposure is not controlled and limited any more. Subjects that were forbidden to touch in the past are discussed daily in dozen of channels accessable in every living room in the arab world. Add to that years of oppression and feeling helpless and you get a bomb waiting to explode. My father generation were raised on Jamal Abdulnasser speeches and somehow had an identity, although a distorted one. This generation is still searching for identity. They weren't fed on corrupt proaganda, instead "Friends" and "Star Academy". Eventually they are feeling empty inside and looking for a cause. It is not about "islam" or "arab" anymore but freedome and dignity.
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post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 03:58
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Fair enough Janissary.

Great photo GO12 by the way.

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post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 09:05 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yeniceri View Post
In my opinion it will take 3 or 4 generations (atleast), to bring about the type of cultural and mentality changes neccessary.

But again Insallah I am wrong and you are right. Hopefully this specific generation now you speak of will jump ahead leaps and bounds. Unlikely though if you look at human history. It is an extremely long and painful process as I alluded to earlier. And sometimes it starts getting worse before it gets beter.

Either way my prayers go out to all those in Egypt out there struggling for a better life, via better government. May they get what they wish for.
3-4 generations? No man, it will take time but not 3-4 generations at all! This generation as GO12 said is so different than the ones before. This is a generation of the internet, social networks, satellites and abroad education.

You do seem to have a little faith in Arab people, I used to be like you, I always though that we have became a corpse but Tunisians, Egyptians, Jordanians, Yemenies and now some in Saudi Arabia, all youth and young people want to change those mother fookers and chose their own government.

After these events, one thing revealed: HOW WEAK THESE REGIMES ARE?! Who thought that Bin Ali and Mubarak will collapse so fast and so powerfully like that?! I DID NOT! Thankfully others believed and worked to get their rights!

I disagree with you in most parts but yes it will take time but for sure not 3-4 generations, give it 2 at most!

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post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 09:07 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yeniceri View Post
I think it might be a tad bit disrespectful to the thread if I sat here and explained my opinion on the Turkish experience on a thread dedicated to what is going on in Egypt.

How ever if our Arabic hosts here, later in the discussion ask for imput about the Turkish experience pertaining to open democracy in a Muslim nation, I would be more than willing to share my opinions.
You are very welcome to do that.

I wish we have a dude from Malaysia who can also share his country's experience.

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post #16 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 17:04
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Some really comical things being said here. Janissary, you think its against arab culture to demand your freedom and run a democracy? Ridiculous colonialist thinking, I'm disgusted reading your posts. And El Lobo, you agree with him? Wake the fcuk up dude.

Ok Assassin, these guys think arabs aren't civilized enough and too 'hot-blooded' (lol) to be democratic, do you want democracy for Jordan?
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post #17 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 18:12
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my simple words, we need democracy for saudia, jordan and every where unless it`s change the basics of our islamic rules and orders.

Egypt.
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post #18 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 21:13 Thread Starter
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Ok Assassin, these guys think arabs aren't civilized enough and too 'hot-blooded' (lol) to be democratic, do you want democracy for Jordan?
For sure!

We do not want to change the regime, the king is some kind of a way out to the king/president chair struggle, because if he goes, all hells will broke loose between the tribes and the different ethnics of Jordan on the position.

Also, we are not as oppressed as others,I do feel very safe in Jordan dealing with all kinds of security forces, torture dose not exit as other countries around us, unless you are a SALAFY or did something that goes under "crimes against the national security" which is usually handled in the intelligence stations, they do not use violence a lot here because it dose not work and because of the nature of the society which is family and tribe power. People here very hot blooded and when such a thing happen they go straight to the police station and occupy it

Our main problem is that the voters themselves trust their family members, so we find a parliament of stupid morons who knows next to nothing about politics, laws, human development, monetary problems, etc just because their family members wanted them there. So there is democracy and the elections never been manipulated for a side against another because there is no need to.

I have lost faith in the parliament just like the rest of the Jordanians who sometimes vote for their family member out of avoiding family blame :thmbdown:

In addition, people know that Jordan is a poor country and we are living way better than other countries around us which are all richer and have so many natural resources and elements to become better, that is some kind of a satisfaction to the people which by the way, is disappearing slowly lately.

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post #19 of 49 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2011, 22:02
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Originally Posted by Culéd View Post
Some really comical things being said here. Janissary, you think its against arab culture to demand your freedom and run a democracy? Ridiculous colonialist thinking, I'm disgusted reading your posts. And El Lobo, you agree with him? Wake the fcuk up dude.
Again you're attributing untrue things to me. Where did I agree with him, I said I understood what he was trying to say but that at this point in time, the people's current reaction is the best and most understandable one. The pen will come into consideration later but for now rage will do.

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post #20 of 49 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2011, 04:09
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Some really comical things being said here. Janissary, you think its against arab culture to demand your freedom and run a democracy? Ridiculous colonialist thinking, I'm disgusted reading your posts. And El Lobo, you agree with him? Wake the fcuk up dude.

Ok Assassin, these guys think arabs aren't civilized enough and too 'hot-blooded' (lol) to be democratic, do you want democracy for Jordan?
Surely this response was bound to come. I am surprised it took this long.

You're right, everything happens in a vacuum. Mubarak is a dicator who was put there by western powers. Without western interference Egypt would have a wonderful vibrant democracy. Would never ever have a dicator. It is all America's fault, it is all Israel's fault, it is all the fault of those damned martians.

Note when the balance of power in the world shifts the same blame game will start but then it will be oh its Brazil's fault, oh its China's fault. Or whom ever is the next superpower. No no no it is never a domestic issue, never can be. I am not downplaying the effects of outside interference or imperialism. The point is that will NEVER stop. The only way to ensure freedom is to fix domestic issues, which makes it much easier to ward off aforementioned "outside interference." You can't treat a disease by attacking its symptoms.

I wonder what you're going to be saying 5 years from now when another "strongman" is ruling Egypt.

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