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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old June 12th, 2006, 04:02 Thread Starter
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Canada: "What we must do to end the embarrassment"

good read

Owen the lonely: Owen Hargreaves is the only Canadian at the World Cup. It's been 20 years since Canada qualified. Here's what we must do to end the embarrassment.

Richard Starnes
The Ottawa Citizen
2576 words
11 June 2006
Ottawa Citizen
Final
D1 / Front
English
Copyright © 2006 Ottawa Citizen

The opening whistle has blown on the world's largest, most hyped, sporting event and Canada is sitting on the sidelines -- again. There's not a Canadian flag, fan or player to be seen across Germany as World Cup 2006 gets under way.

We've only made it to the finals once, in 1986, and the occasion produced faces as embarrassingly red as the Canadian jersey. No goals in three games and sent home disgraced.

Since then we haven't even come close to qualifying.

For several years, Canada was coached by German Holger Osieck. When he was dumped in 2004, former Canadian international Frank Yallop took over and since then there have been signs the Canadian national team has been improving.

But earlier this week, Yallop shocked the Canadian Soccer Association by quitting to become coach of the L.A. Galaxy of Major League Soccer.

CSA officials said Yallop left for "personal and professional" reasons, whatever that may mean. Yallop has made no comment on his abrupt resignation.

Meanwhile, in Germany, Canada's only connection to the finals is Calgary-born Owen Hargreaves, who had to leave home at 16 to further his career. He moved to Bayern Munich, Germany's top team, and later chose to snub Canada and play instead for England, where his father was born.

It has been a remarkable achievement for the best player ever to come out of this country. He has become a regular defensive-midfield starter with Bayern and has won himself a place on the England squad despite playing not one minute of his club soccer in England. All this with precious little help from his own country.

There are suggestions he opted to earn a place with England because he knew Canada was incapable of making it to the World Cup finals, soccer's holy grail.

He was right.

At the grass roots, Canadian soccer appears to be thriving. Some 850,000 play the game, about half of them boys and men, and half of those under 12. Plenty of potential, you might think.

Unfortunately, far too few of those young seeds grow into sturdy saplings around whom we can build a national team capable of qualifying for the World Cup.

Canada is ranked 83rd in the world, sandwiched between Oman and Jordan. Obviously we are not getting the job done.

The Canadian Soccer Association knows this as well as anyone, which is why, some eight months ago, it managed to persuade senior English Football Association technical director Richard Bate to become its technical boss.

The plan was for him to look at three technical areas: the six national training centres across the country, which bring in kids for a weekend once a month for special coaching; national youth teams; and coaching development.

So he set off across the country, talking and watching and learning more disturbing things than he must have wanted.

He found a broad network of politicking within provincial soccer associations is hampering development of the national team.

"I know this is a judgment after a small time," he says. "But there is a powerful attitude of: 'My province or my club is more important than my country.' The politics is massively getting in the way."

"For example, coaches would be happy, I am sure, to come on every coaching course they could and become as qualified as possible to produce the players to play for the nation.

"It's the politics or politicians that run the game who are the ones that say they're not doing this or not doing that. They are putting the block, in one sense, on the development of potential.

"Parochial is how I describe it.

"It's more important to the clubs who get the money and get the players to win the club championship than it is to release their players to play for the national team in what you might call a 'friendly' international."

Guy Bradbury, CEO of the Ontario Soccer Association, recognizes there are difficulties and a need for discussion.

"In Ontario, we do recognize that is an issue," he says. "Club development is very important at a community level. A lot of these clubs are still community based and take a lot of pride in development."

He says his organization is eager to develop a process for recognizing the best players and has a goal of developing nine players in each age group so they are good enough to play on national teams.

"As you can see, we are certainly not averse to national team promotion," he says. "I do believe there is a beginning to that type of dialogue so at least everyone is on the same pathway to working for success."

Bate is the first to agree that after such a short time in Canada it would be presumptuous for him to have the answers.

But he does want to influence a change in provincial attitude. He points out his mandate is not politics and he is not a politician, he is a technical expert.

"It's really up to the CSA and the provinces to come to terms with the fact if we are not doing very well, can we do better, can we sit round a table, agree a better way forward for the nation and, consequently, for the provinces and the clubs."

Removing the possessive attitude within provincial associations is only one part of the problem. Unlike hockey, Canadian soccer has no structure for developing a player; no vision a young player can chase.

Hockey has a well-established route for the youngster dreaming of becoming the next Wayne Gretzky. Work your way through the junior ranks with junior A hockey as the goal. Reach that plateau and keep working towards an NHL contract.

Bate points out the talented teenager needs a standard of competition that is always pushing him to be better.

"You may be a talented player, but you'll be playing somebody like the Moosehead Rockets each week where the level of competition isn't sufficient to stretch you from your comfort zone," he says. "That isn't sufficient to push the barrier towards higher standards. The level of competition for the potential international is not good enough.

"There has to be an incentive for him to be the best he can be and to stay in the game. Here, there's nothing."

The nowhere-to-go cry can be heard whenever the subject of Canada's failure at the highest level is discussed.

TSN analyst Dick Howard, who also has close working connections to the world governing body of soccer, FIFA, points out there are three United Soccer League teams in this country at present -- Vancouver Whitecaps, Toronto Lynx and Montreal Impact. These are the traditional hotbeds of the Canadian game.

They play in a 12-team North American league that is one step down from Major League Soccer, the league with standards close to the best in Europe. Almost exactly half the U.S. squad in the World Cup finals plays in the MLS.

"In Ontario, which has more participation than any province, there is a major dropoff after 16," Howard says. "It may be cars or girls or other things but the fact is there is no incentive, nowhere for good youngsters to aspire to.

"For a young player we have a six-month season at best and salaries at the Toronto Lynx last year ranged from $5,000 to $15,000. What sort of incentive is that? The best players have to go overseas and some have done well. But there is no attainable dream in this country."

So, in all this gloom, is there a glimmer of a chance that we will see our red Canadian soccer jerseys at the next World Cup in South Africa in 2010, or perhaps the one four years after that in an as-yet un-selected South American country?

A year ago the answer would have been glum, with long-faced officials trying to put a brave face on an impossible situation.

Several things have taken place since then to offer a hint of hope.

The CSA suggests the appointment of as experienced an international technical director as Bate is one indication it is pushing for imperative improvements.

It also points to the importance of Canada hosting the world under-20 championship next year. This event is second only to the World Cup in soccer importance and is the third-largest sporting spectacle -- by TV ratings -- after the World Cup and the Olympics. Ottawa's Frank Clair Stadium will be among the venues for some of the best junior talent on Earth.

To land the event is a coup for Canada and has the potential to put hefty extra funds in the coffers. But it has little to do with developing a World Cup squad.

It's another development that is catching the most attention.

Until 1999, when it was torn down, there had been a sports stadium of some sort at Exhibition Place in Toronto since 1879. This was where the Argos played for 29 years; where 12 Grey Cups were played; where the Blue Jays performed for 10 years.

Now there is rebirth under way and it is soccer that is taking centre stage. Last October, Toronto City Council approved construction of a 20,000-seat soccer-specific stadium with major funding from federal, provincial and municipal governments.

Soccer specific means seating starts close to the action -- no running tracks or wide spaces between stands and the field. And soccer specific means an exciting venue for a new professional franchise.

Next year, Toronto FC will take the field as the first Canadian team in the MLS. It is a franchise landed by Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, the organization that also runs both the Maple Leafs and the Raptors out of the Air Canada Centre.

Toronto FC is a significant new soccer face run by one of North America's leading sporting organizations and it represents new hope for budding soccer professionals and, by extension, for the development of a competitive Canadian team.

Bate suggests it could be a team on which a young player can set his sights.

"In England or Brazil, players start to play at six," he says. "And a player knows there is a pro team outlet when he gets to 18 or 19. Here, right now, there is nothing."

In addition to Toronto FC, there are encouraging signs new soccer-specific stadiums will be built in Montreal and Vancouver. With them could go two more MLS franchises and more outlets for Canada's best young players.

Bate hopes Toronto FC will also run its own junior team which will play the best juniors at other MLS clubs from Washington to Los Angeles to Houston. That way the best youngsters from here could play against the best youngsters in the U.S in much the same way the system works in England where teenagers are registered with major clubs like Arsenal, Manchester United or Tottenham and play against one another regularly.

"There's nothing like better players playing better players week in, week out," he says.

Bate is not the only one putting faith in the new franchise.

"Right now there are no role models for youngsters and there's nowhere for them to go," says Craig Forrest, the former West Ham and Canada goalkeeper and one of the best players to come out of this country. "I'm hoping the MLS coming to Toronto is a step in the right direction."

Howard suggests young players will finally have their own homegrown Canadian soccer heroes which will, in turn, help build a Canadian buzz for the game and viable, quality outlets for aspiring international players.

While there is promise on the horizon, Bate is adamant very serious work must be done at a younger age.

He is encouraged by what he describes as the "massive" number of children under 12 playing the game. He believes it's a bonus that needs to be exploited for the long term good of the international game.

The trouble is 94 per cent of these children are "coached" by someone with absolutely no formal coaching qualifications.

"They are amateur enthusiasts, parent coaches who, with the best will in the world, will be inadequate because they don't have the education. There are a lot of very good people ... We need to turn these amateur enthusiasts into more educated experts. The question is: How do we service them with decent tuition?"

To tackle this, it is imperative a plan be developed by the CSA with all the provinces.

Bate says the CSA is responsible for the development of the game, but does not have the money to put plans he may come up with into practice.

"If it (CSA) wants to do something it has to have the finances and the personnel to get the job done," he says. "If it wants money, it has to go to the country, the parents, the clubs and say: 'Can you give us the money to do the job.'

"That's bloody nonsense. I've never, ever been in a football country where the national governing body is the weakest body in the country.

"Clubs have got the power because they have the finance. The provinces have got the power because they have the finance and the clubs.

"So, if I want the CSA to put my plans into action, we haven't the money. We have to appeal to boards of provinces and say: 'Please donate us money.' In every other country, the people who run the game are at the top of the pyramid."

Bate may be new on our soccer scene, but he has been quick to identify problems. Meanwhile, he offers an optimistic view on Canada's World Cup aspirations.

He suggests we are close to qualifying out of our region -- CONCACAF. He says the U.S. and Mexico are clearly the region's strongest teams and will always qualify. Costa Rica will qualify regularly.

"After that there is a pool of six to eight countries for one place. There is not a great deal between us. On a good day, with a good tournament, Canada could qualify for the next World Cup."
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old June 12th, 2006, 07:51
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[QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by ssf
good read

Owen the lonely: Owen Hargreaves is the only Canadian at the World Cup. It's been 20 years since Canada qualified. Here's what we must do to end the embarrassment.

Richard Starnes
The Ottawa Citizen
2576 words
11 June 2006
Ottawa Citizen
Final
D1 / Front
English
Copyright © 2006 Ottawa Citizen
Great article!
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old June 13th, 2006, 00:54
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Canada in World Cup 1986 FIFA Technical Reports

The article has a few inaccuracies and I especially have a problem with the second paragraph.

Quote:
We've only made it to the finals once, in 1986, and the occasion produced faces as embarrassingly red as the Canadian jersey. No goals in three games and sent home disgraced.
You don't have to take my word for it, the Fifa reports from 1986 spell it out.

This is all of the information and photos taken from the four WC 1986 FIFA technical report pdfs regarding Canada.

http://www.fifa.com/en/development/t...1252,3,00.html

Group Analysis: Group C
Canada started as rank outsiders to the tournament, Hungary had it their own way and the favourites-the USSR and France-asserted themselves.

All four teams had difficulties with the fields of play. At first the lawn was too high in both stadia. After having been cut time and again, it still proved to be too thick and too soft. Low passes lost speed and players who tried to dribble not rarely tripped over the ball. It impaired the quality of the games and for those players provided with brilliant skills it was an obvious handicap.

The Soviet side impressed the spectators by their pace, toughness in tackling, skill, tactical flexibility and determined putting away of chances.

Owing to an excellent skill of all team members, France displayed an elegant style of play and excelled by a great mutual understanding and their flair for a variable play. Against Canada and Hungary, the French seemed to play in third gear. In the encounter with the USSR, they proved to have tactical discipline and maturity.

Hungary disappointed all amateurs of football and could never recover from their 0:6 defeat against the Soviets. The Hungarian team performed far beneath their actual value, had forgotten all their virtues and made a depressed impression.

From the beginning, Canada had nothing to lose, ran and fought bravely and sold their skin dearly. But their abilities were clearly limited. Their finishing was insufficient. In return, they proved to be a real enrichment for the tournament thanks to their enthusiasm and their very refreshing style of play.

Canada surprised the experts. Particularly in the game against France they exceeded the expectations and only lost 0.1. Bridge and Samuel (below against Rocheteau) distinguished themselves especially by their excellent tackling. The participation of Canada proved to be a benefit to the World Cup Finals and will undoubtedly help to make soccer more popular in that country.



The Players
The North American Soccer League (NASL) was disbanded in the beginning of 1985. This also caused the dissolution of many professional clubs. The international players Wilson, Ragan, Samuel, James, Dolan and Habermann could not find a new club. Therefore, they were available to their national manager for a long preparation programme.

About half of the Canadian players got a job with clubs of the Major Indoor Soccer League (MISL) and thus were able to participate in the American indoors championship.

Three players found a job abroad: Bridge played at La Chaux-de-Fonds (Switzerland), Moore was under contract with Glentoran Belfast and Vrablic scored goals for Seraing in Belgium. Youngster Paul James was invited for a test training by Arsenal, but was not engaged.

The Canadian team was composed of players from various countries. Seven of the standard players were born abroad, emigrated to Canada later on and became naturalized: Gray and Norman came from Scotland, James from Wales, Lettieri was born in Italy and Samuel in Trinidad. Vrablic's country of origin was the CSSR and Segota came from Yugoslavia.

Team Organization
The team organization and the conception of play were typically British: a classic 4-4-2 system with an overall zonal marking.

Young Dolan guarded the goal in Canada's first game against France. In the following matches standard goalkeeper Lettieri was given preference again.

The four-man defense played three times in the same formation. The central defenders Bridge and Samuel covered each other in the middle. Lenarduzzi was used as right full-back. The team's senior and captain Wilson was charged with the position of the left full-back.

The indefatigable Ragan played in the left midfield during all the games. Although he did not have the qualities of a playmaker he was nevertheless the Canadians' central organizer and their driving force. He was supported by Gray in the encounters with Hungary and the USSR. Against France, Ragan was assisted by the talented James whose qualities as a slightly retreated right winger came to bear very well in this position.

Norman was given an offensive role on one of the flanks. Against France, Sweeney ran wide on the left side, operating as a retreated winger.

Three players were available for the two positions upfront. The lightning-quick Valentine was used in all three games. Vrablic, Canada's goal getter was nominated for the first two matches and was then replaced by Mitchell against the USSR.

Attacking Play
The attacking play was based on the physical and mental qualities of the Canadians: fastness, stamina, running power and fighting spirit. They bridged the midfield as fast as possible and directly went for the opposing goal.

As soon as the defenders had conquered the ball, they tried to bring the forwards into action by long passes. The midfield players immediately followed up and tried to run clear. One of their main tasks was to chase or to fight for the rebounds in order to launch their strikers once again.

Other characteristics of the Canadian offensive play were swift runs down the flanks followed by sharp crosses and shots from all positions and distances. But in the penalty area the players mostly lacked vision and coolness. Some Canadians did not dispose of the necessary skill, an essential factor at full speed. This is also a reason why the Canadian team did not score one of their many opportunities.

Defensive Play
The strong points of the Canadian team were undoubtedly to be found in defense. They were well organized at the back. The positional play of the defenders was next to perfect. Their mutual understanding proved to be very good. One really had the impression that this team have been built up over years, with only some few changes.

The physical qualities of the defenders proved to be quite useful in all their defensive actions. The two central defenders Bridge and Samuel could not be harassed by high crosses. Thanks to the well-trained abilities in tackling and the uncompromising commitment of all the defenders, the Canadians were able to stand their ground even against teams provided with superior skills without having to resort to unnecessary fouls.

Conclusions
Manager Waiters presented a well-balanced team with a good mutual understanding. They had their strong sides certainly in the mental field. The disciplined party was provided with an exceptional morale. Each player was willing to devote himself completely to the team. There was no other team at this World Cup tournament with such a highly developed feeling of solidarity. Some players arrived in Mexico-coming from the Canadian indoors championship (sic) - just a few days before their first game and thus could hardly adapt themselves to the altitude. Nevertheless, the team appeared to be in good shape. The Canadians set a good example that even at top level it is possible to cope with difficult situations with determination and enthusiasm

Manager Waiters was clever enough to let his team perform their familiar soccer, regardless of altitude and heat. To play with a pressing means that all team members have to run a lot and that the harmony among them has to be excellent. As soon as the ball was lost, the opponents were attacked and put under pressure. For this reason, they had enormous difficulties to develop their own game and to find their rhythm.

Canada made great trouble to the French team and had to concede the crucial goal only ten minutes from time. Against Hungary, the Canadians assaulted continuously the opposing goal. It was only because of a lack in coolness and a great deal of bad luck that they did not win a point in their best game. The Soviets too were faced with some problems. It took them 60 minutes to break down the astonishing Canadians. Canada's first participation in the World Cup Finals must doubtlessly be regarded as a gain. The fighting spirit of all players, their commitment and enthusiasm deserve congratulations!


From left to right Wilson, Lenarduzzi, Valentine, Bridge, Ragan, James, Samuel, Norman, Sweeny, Vrablic, Dolan

Tony Waiters
Tony Waiters (49) was goalkeeper with the English First Division club Blackpool from 1957-69, with 257 first team appearances. Later on, he was transferred to Burnley where he finished his career as a player. He played five times for England: against Brazil, Wales, Ireland Rep., Belgium and the Netherlands.



Waiters began his career as a manager quite successfully: in 1973 he won the European Championships with the English youth team. In the same year he was appointed manager of the Third Division club Plymouth Argyle and managed to be promoted to the Second Division with this team in 1975.

In 1977 Waiters went to Canada. With the Vancouver Whitecaps he was at the same time president, general manager and coach. In 1979 this team became champions of the NASL.

In 1983 he took over the Canadian national team, working at the same time in an advisory capacity for the Canadian Soccer Association. Canada qualified for the soccer tournament of the Olympic Games in Los Angeles in 1984. After a victory over Cameroon (3:1), a draw against Iraq (1:1) and a defeat against Yugoslavia (0:1), Canada achieved the Quarter-Finals. The game against Brazil ended in a draw (1:1), Canada lost the shoot-out and were eliminated.

Development
The Canadian youth team managed to qualify for two World Youth Championships (WYC). At the WYC '79 in Japan, Canada caused a great surprise with a 3:1 victory over Portugal.

After losing to Korea Rep. (0:1) and to Paraguay (0:3) the Canadian side were eliminated. Four players from the select team for Mexico were first string players of that youth national team: Bridge, Gray, Segota and Sweeney.

From the team participating in the WYC '85 in USSR no players were admitted to Canada's Mexico team. No less than 13 players, however, were already present at the Olympic Games in Los Angeles.

Canada v. France 0:1 (0:0)
June 1/1986 4:00 pm Leon, Nou Camp Stadium

Canada: Dolan - Lenarduzzi, Bridge, Samuel, Wilson - Norman,
James (82' Segota), Ragan, Sweeney (54' Lowery) -Vrablic, Valentine

France: Bats -Amoros, Battiston, Bossis,Tusseau-Tigana,
Giresse, Platini, Fernandez- Rocheteau (70' Stopyra), Papin

Referee: H. Silva Arce, Chile
Linesmen: R. Mendez Molina, Guatemala, B. Ulloa Morera, Costa Rica
Goals: 79' Papin 0:1
Cautions:
Expulsions:
Spectators: 36,000?

There are many roads to success and not only a single one; this is also true with football. Canada and France demonstrated this in their opening game of Group C quite clearly.

As it was to be expected the Canadians played rather "British". Starting with much self-confidence they were very strong in their tackles, superior in the air and tried to demonstrate a simple attacking play. The French seemed to be surprised by this resistance.

The European Champions, being undoubtedly superior with regard to skill and international experience, were not able to determine the rhythm of the game for a longer time. The resolute tackling of the Canadian athletes, their long passes from the solid defense, the swift moves on the wing, the sharp crosses and shots from all positions and distances disconcerted the French time and again. At the end, however, Papin's goal gave France a highly deserved 1:0 victory, due to the fact that Fernandez, Platini, Giresse, Tigana and Papin had definitely more scoring chances than their opponents Norman, Wilson, Bridge, Valentine and Vrablic.

Hungary v. Canada 2:0 (1:0)
June 6/1986 12:00 pm Irapuato, Irapuato Stadium

Hungary: Szendrei - Kardos - Sallai, Nagy (62' Dajka), Garaba, Varga - Burcsa (28' Roth), Detari, Bognar- Kiprich, Esterhazy

Canada: Lettieri - Lenarduzzi, Bridge, Samuel, Wilson (40' Sweeney) - James (53' Segota), Gray, Ragan, Norman -Valentine, Vrablic

Referee: J. AI-Sharif, Syria
Linesmen: Z . Petrovic, Yugoslavia; C. Bambridge, Australia

Goals: 2' Esterhazy 1:0; 75' Detari 2:0
Cautions: Sweeney (52'), Lenarduzzi (83')
Expulsions: Sweeney (85')
Spectators: 13,800

Anxiety is a bad precondition for success. The shock of the high defeat against USSR had obviously developed into a nightmare in the Hungarian team.

Even after an early 2nd minute lead by Esterhazy the players at times seemed to be paralyzed, anxious and helpless.

The Canadians played recklessly and embarrassed the Hungarian defense time and again. Hungary was lucky that the Canadians showed poor finishing abilities and gave away all their chances. If they had succeeded in equalizing, the Canadians could have even won the game.

When Hungary were close to a breakdown, Detari launched with a well-timed pass Kiprich whose shot bounced back from the goalkeeper but Detari, having followed the action, sent it in scoring the decisive 2:0. Now the Hungarians finally lost all their anxiety. They showed flowing combinations and proved to be excellent football players.

USSR v. Canada 2:0 (0:0)
June 9/1986 12:00 pm Irapuato, Irapuato Stadium

USSR: Chanov- Bubnov- Bal, Kuznetsov, Morozov- Litovchenko, Aleinikov, Yevtushenko, Rodionov- Protasov (57' Belanov), Blokhin (61' Zavarov)

Canada: Lettieri - Lenarduzzi, Bridge, Samuel, Wilson -James (64' Segota), Ragan, Gray (69' Pakos) - Valentine, Mitchell

Referee: I. Traoré, Mali
Linesmen: F. AI-Shanar, Saudi Arabia; G. Gonzalez Roa, Paraguay

Goals: 58' Blokhin 1:0; 74' Zavarov 2 :0
Cautions:
Expulsions:
Spectators: 14,200

In their third game, the Russians gave Blokhin and Protasov an opportunity to play. Some players from Dynamo Kiev, who have had a very hard season, could so enjoy a welcome rest. The changes in the line-up had some effects on the performance of the Soviets. Canada were a difficult opponent, displaying a great deal of determination, willpower and concentration. They also contributed to a good and fair atmosphere.

The maturity in the game of USSR was shown in the second-half by flowing combinations and superior individual performances. The effectiveness of the Russian attacks was increased in particular after Belanov had replaced Protasov. It was Belanov who prepared the first goal scored by Blokhin (58th minute). Immediately afterwards Blokhin had to be replaced. His substitute, Zavarov, scored the second goal, which meant at the same time that USSR had won their group. Canada's brave performances in all their games should actually be a big additional motivation for the further improvement of football in that country.

Last edited by Joe MacCarthy; June 13th, 2006 at 08:58.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old July 5th, 2006, 03:49
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Thanks for that Joe_McCarthy!
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old July 5th, 2006, 04:50
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Canada isnt a bad team..some good players, usually of immigrant stock like that Pole on Fulham etc..etc..

Saltieri imo is a very good player. I rate Canada above Honduras, T&T, even Costa Rica for that matter. Whats lacking is the support I think.

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old July 5th, 2006, 15:47
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Canada has many skilled players that play in Europe such as Stalteri,DeGuzman boys'etc and if we got a top class European coach,I believe Canada could get much farther in the Intenational stage.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old July 8th, 2006, 01:50
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Segota came from Yugoslavia.

Im sure if Branko Segota read this he would tell you that he is Croatian
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old July 8th, 2006, 06:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Licki Macak
Segota came from Yugoslavia.

Im sure if Branko Segota read this he would tell you that he is Croatian
The report was written in 1986, bro.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old July 8th, 2006, 20:54
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In 1986 Segota was still Croatian. Remember who the 1976 NASL champs were? It wasnt Toronto Metros-Yugoslavs but Metros-Croatia.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old July 11th, 2006, 05:31
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I don't know why I am writing this!

Sorry in advance for the rant...

Canada definitely has some talent abroad. Radzinski (earlier referred to as "that Pole in Fulham" ), Hargreaves (to some, "Whoregraves" ), the De Guzman brothers, Stalteri, and Forrest are a pretty good breed to come out of Canada. Especially Radzinski (not allowed to play for Canada by Holger Osieck when he was at his best) who was the top scorer in the Champions League for Anderlecht. If I'm not mistaken, that was that same year that Canada won the Gold Cup...

I don't know if you've heard much about Jonathan De Guzman, but apparently, he's been rated a top ten Under-21 player in the world. At Feyenoord, the Dutch are offering him citizenship to play in orange, and De Guzman is seriously contemplating it. There's another player on Vitoria Setubal's youth side (Ibidza? forgot his name) who is apparently in the same situation in Portugal. Sounds like two more Whoregraves situations... (Info from this paragraph in today's Vancouver Sun.)

And interest in the sport is not only with the youth domestically. Here in Vancouver, the biggest soccer league has dozens of divisions, hundreds of teams, and tens of thousands of players. Believe it or not, this league is made of ex-internationals and ex-top tier professionals from other nations. From what I hear, it is a rough and tough league that makes big bucks. As I understand it, this league is not organized nor affiliated with the CSA. This league comprises mostly of immigrants from South East Asia. I know there are similar leagues in Toronto and Montréal that comprise of Carribeans and Africans. Nevermind the 86'ers, the Lynx, or Toronto FC. These leagues garner more attention, and bring in bigger crowds than the CSA realizes, or would like to believe.

But compared to Australia, who has 2/3rds the population of Canada, Viduka, Kewell, Cahill, and Schwarzer put our country's players to pretty big shame. Even Georgia, with a war-torn population 10% of Canada's, has churned out players like Kaladze, Kinkladze, Ketsbaia, the Arveladze twins, along with a large number of players in the Bundesliga. (Granted, Georgia is rated lower on the FIFA ranking.) I won't even bother mentioning the number of African and Eastern European nations, with lesser populations and fewer resources, that rank higher than Canada.

In the Canadian media, Canada's sporting achievements are often compared to those of Australia and the Czech Republic. Sure, Australia can beat us in all the Summer Games, but how come the Czechs can challenge us in hockey, and in most other sports?

Maybe it's just a matter of culture and geography, and not how much money we put into it the programmes. True, Canadians are wealthy enough to buy alloy skates, carbon-fibre sticks, and impact-foam padding. Much of the rest of the world plays bare-foot on a gravel field á-la José+10. But we can't play bare-foot anything in the cold or in the snow. And they can't play with skates on a gravel field. We complain a lot about why we don't make it to the World Cup. But I don't think they complain at all about why they don't make it to the IIHF World Championships. It makes me feel especially bad only because soccer happens to be the biggest sport in the world, and hockey is not.

If it was the other way around, you wouldn't hear us say "why can't we make it to the World Cup" and "Brazil's 2nd team can beat anyone in the world." You'd hear them say "why can't we make it to the IIHF" and "Canada's 2nd team can beat anyone in the world." Hell, we're pretty good at a lot of other sports, too! They're just not the popular Summer Games events; they're the less popular Winter Games events.

I don't know why I am writing this. Albeit, I know that we don't have to do anything to "end the embarassment" because there is no real "embarassment" on the soccer pitch. It's just a matter of chance, culture, and geography that we're not that great at it. The embarassment is in our minds. Even with a lacking national team that is altogether decent, Canada should be proud of what we have on the pitch. As mentioned earlier by someone else, the difference between Canada and other countries might just be that we're not as proud of our starting 11 as others. No amount of money into the programmes will make Forrest or Radzinski household names. If not even 5% of Canadians know who these people are, even the ones who love the sport, then we can't be proud of them.

Again, sorry for the rant!

Last edited by Temeraire; July 11th, 2006 at 05:58.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old July 11th, 2006, 09:44
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Just a couple of quick clarifications, IIRC Rad blackballed himself from Holger, trying to establish his career at Anderlecht. Holger had enough and stopped inviting him and I believe Rad had a semi no show in there as well.

Ironically, Rad became more loyal to the CMNT the bigger a star he became and Holger was the one who got him to recommit as Rad did come back under the Holger regime.

Rumour had it, it was Rad's parents in the GTA who helped convinced him it was the right thing to do. If only all immigrant parents thought that way.

Since then Rad has stated that on retirement he'd like to come back and give something back to the game in Canada (ie coaching)

I don't think the Dutch are offering citizenship to Jono. It is extremely difficult to get and the reason he wants it is for the EU passport which enables him to play anywhere in the EU. He will surely outgrow Holland.

IIRC Kalou was recently "refused" citizenship. If Jono wanted to play for Holland he already could have as it was offered, the same as Canada. Who knows which way it will turn but he is not being offered citizenship just to cap him, it's too difficult to get and they could cap him without it.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old July 11th, 2006, 19:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Temeraire
I don't know if you've heard much about Jonathan De Guzman, but apparently, he's been rated a top ten Under-21 player in the world. At Feyenoord, the Dutch are offering him
Also his brother is very good, Julian De Guzman. He is the first Canadian to be playing in la Liga and has done very well. I believe he has been playing center mid and has adapted very well.

http://www.deportivo-la-coruna.com/squad/guzman.html

Viva Real Madrid y Espańa!
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old July 12th, 2006, 20:55
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We have threads on Jonathan and Julian De Guzman.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old July 13th, 2006, 03:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe MacCarthy
Just a couple of quick clarifications, IIRC Rad blackballed himself from Holger, trying to establish his career at Anderlecht. Holger had enough and stopped inviting him and I believe Rad had a semi no show in there as well.

Ironically, Rad became more loyal to the CMNT the bigger a star he became and Holger was the one who got him to recommit as Rad did come back under the Holger regime.

Rumour had it, it was Rad's parents in the GTA who helped convinced him it was the right thing to do. If only all immigrant parents thought that way.

Since then Rad has stated that on retirement he'd like to come back and give something back to the game in Canada (ie coaching).
Thanks Joe MacCarthy! Didn't know that! Good to know, because I think he would defintiely help us out here.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old July 13th, 2006, 03:47
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We have threads on Jonathan and Julian De Guzman.
Thanks for those as well, Jeff! Great info and great reads!
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old July 26th, 2006, 21:51
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Keep your teams away from the americans and play the game like normal people and Canadain football should prosper.

All that franchise shit and drafting shit pisses me off

end football Apartheid in Ireland!!
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old August 1st, 2006, 01:32
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Football here sucks because the youth league are corrupt as ****. My little bro plays rep and house league . rep they barely practice and if they do none of the kids show up because them and their parents arent commited enough. so what are they learning nada how can players develop ? . my bro who is one of the best players in the province for his age (yes its true) and he has to do everything himswlf on the damn field if he passes the ball (which btw his passing is amazing and very accurate for a 10 year he has temendous vision) the other kids ALWAYS lose the ball i go mad at this games and the parents look at me like im insane because if littl johhny makes a "big kick" up the field which goes to no one in perticualr they think its all good. and house league dont get me started they dont even practice. I like Canada ive lived here for a while but thank god I and my parents were born back home and my bro can hopefuly play for Croatia one day . I dont say that even because Canada is not good at football despite him being born in Canada he has always idolized the players wearng the checkerd jerseys of Croatia and felt Croatian. That being saidi support Canadian football i coach kids and actually have practise and actually teach them something they can use . when Toronto FC comes here i will try to go to every game and try to make it to more Canada NT games in the future
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old August 1st, 2006, 02:55
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Ice Hockey=Canada

Then comes Baseball, Basketball, a bit of American football..not much but a bit...then comes real Football.

Thats why Canada isn't getting anywhere.

DULCE ET DECORUM EST PRO PATRIA MORI

ILLYRICUM TOTO SUPERUS

RROFT SHQIPERIA
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old August 1st, 2006, 04:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kralj
Football here sucks because the youth league are corrupt as ****. My little bro plays rep and house league . rep they barely practice and if they do none of the kids show up because them and their parents arent commited enough. so what are they learning nada how can players develop ? . my bro who is one of the best players in the province for his age (yes its true) and he has to do everything himswlf on the damn field if he passes the ball (which btw his passing is amazing and very accurate for a 10 year he has temendous vision) the other kids ALWAYS lose the ball i go mad at this games and the parents look at me like im insane because if littl johhny makes a "big kick" up the field which goes to no one in perticualr they think its all good. and house league dont get me started they dont even practice. I like Canada ive lived here for a while but thank god I and my parents were born back home and my bro can hopefuly play for Croatia one day . I dont say that even because Canada is not good at football despite him being born in Canada he has always idolized the players wearng the checkerd jerseys of Croatia and felt Croatian. That being saidi support Canadian football i coach kids and actually have practise and actually teach them something they can use . when Toronto FC comes here i will try to go to every game and try to make it to more Canada NT games in the future
your bro ain't going to play for Croatia p my cousin is one of the best players on his team in a junior league and he was one of the top scorers in a "ljetna liga" during the summer and he probably won't play in the 1.HNL. Croatian clubs are corrupt, juniors need to pay to play in many clubs

about Canada, getting some clubs in the MLS would be good and make sure there are some Canadians on the team, also try to hire some foreign coaches to manager youth teams
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old August 1st, 2006, 07:27
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I said hopefully HS 99% chaance he wont but im telling you if he is dedicated he can go somewhere wiht football not because he s my brother cause he will be the first to tell you any mistake he makes hell be hearing about it for the next week form me and i go work on it with him in the park for 2 hours.
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