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post #1 of 56 (permalink) Old December 27th, 2005, 01:42 Thread Starter
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The Jonathan de Guzman thread

Jonathan has yet to commit one way or another, but the signs point to his joining up with Holland, where he plays for Feyenoord.

Frankly, I can't blame the guy. He'll have a much better international career (and probably therefore a better club career) if he plays for Holland. Canada could certainly use his services, but then we could use the services of a dozen other good players that we don't have. He certainly wouldn't single-handedly turn our fortunes around.
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post #2 of 56 (permalink) Old December 27th, 2005, 02:14
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Has his brother chosen to play for Canada or???

That might have an impact on his decision.

But I agree with you, he will probably choose Holland, just becasue of the arguments you mentioned.
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post #3 of 56 (permalink) Old December 27th, 2005, 17:47 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starcraft
Has his brother chosen to play for Canada or???
Julian already has 15 caps for Canada.

I don't think that's much of a factor for Jonathan.
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post #4 of 56 (permalink) Old December 27th, 2005, 17:57
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Hopefully Holland we gave you Jason de Vos, time for you to payback p

Thread dedicated to the great man in the Feyenoord forum btw: https://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=178400

He really is good. Which ever country he decides to play for will benefit from him, even the current Dutch NT right now. His goal and performance yesterday against AZ only confirmed my belief that he seriously can go all the way.


Lex Immers - Pace & power. Holland's #1 box to box player

Feyenoord forum - the place to talk about this phenomenon

Ronald Koeman "Oranje kan Immers goed gebruiken"

Fred Rutten "Feyenoord heeft Immers nodig"

Van Marwijk over Lex Immers: 'Stille kracht van Feyenoord'

John de Wolf “Dat is nou precies de aanjager, het ’etterbakkie’ in het veld dat Feyenoord in dit soort wedstrijden nodig heeft"


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post #5 of 56 (permalink) Old December 27th, 2005, 19:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Julian already has 15 caps for Canada.

I don't think that's much of a factor for Jonathan.
Why not...Would you not preferred to play with your brother??
I know I would...
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post #6 of 56 (permalink) Old December 27th, 2005, 23:10 Thread Starter
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Well, there's no guarantee they would play together anyway even if they were in the Canadian NT player pool.

They play for separate clubs, in different countries. They have separate lives. I don't think Jonathan is about to plan his own career around the possibility that he might be able to share the field with his brother a couple of times a year.

If he were that sentimental, he probably wouldn't consider playing for Holland anyway - brother or no brother.
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post #7 of 56 (permalink) Old December 28th, 2005, 18:32
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More news on de Guzman, this is from Skysports:

Feyenoord starlet Jonathan de Guzman says he is concentrating on his club career amid speculation over his international future.

The 18-year-old winger has been a revelation for the Rotterdam club this season, having come through the ranks as a youth trainee since arriving at De Kuip six years ago.

Premiership sides Arsenal, Chelsea and Manchester United are all thought to be currently monitoring the player's rapid progress.

The Canadian-born talent has become the subject of a reported international tug-of-war, with the teenager eligible to apply for Dutch citizenship.

The Dutch FA (KNVB) are thought to want the Scarborough, Ontario-native to commit internationally to the Oranje, while de Guzman has already turned down the chance to join Canada's Under-20 squad and their preparations for hosting the 2007 World Youth Championship.

De Guzman - younger brother of Deportivo La Coruna and Canada midfielder Julian
- told Canadian daily The Toronto Star that the lure of playing for Holland may prove too hard to resist.

"Right now, I haven't made a decision," de Guzman said. "I don't have a Dutch passport, but I can get one later.

"I don't know when. I'm just concentrating on Feyenoord for now.

"I believe Canada has been in the World Cup once in its history and Holland goes basically to every World Cup.

"If you play for Canada, you might miss a (club) game.

"You fly so many hours to Vancouver or Honduras to play one game and then maybe fly back to play a tough game in your league.

"I'm young and I do need my rest."

The teenager's comments are sure to concern Canadian football supporters, with fans still seething over Owen Hargreaves's decision to play for England instead of Canada a few years ago.

Despite being born in Calgary, Alberta, the Bayern Munich midfielder opted to play for The Three Lions, due to his father being born in England.

Canada boss Frank Yallop is hoping de Guzman will not become another young footballing talent that is lost to the North American nation.

"In the end, it's 'Do I want to put on the red shirt and feel patriotic and play for Canada or not?'," insists Yallop
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post #8 of 56 (permalink) Old December 29th, 2005, 07:58 Thread Starter
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A fairer way to state it might be, "'Do I want to put on the red shirt and feel patriotic and play for Canada, or do I want to have a hope of playing in the World Cup within the next 20 years?"
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post #9 of 56 (permalink) Old December 30th, 2005, 06:45
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'Or will I ever get any playing time in the Dutch NT?'

sup
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post #10 of 56 (permalink) Old December 31st, 2005, 00:44
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I cant understand why he would want to play for Holland. What does he have thats Dutch? How can you just play for a country that you have nothing to do with.
This is [email protected]@@ing stupid. If he does pick Holland I hope he never comes back here, I dont want to see his ugly a$$.
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post #11 of 56 (permalink) Old December 31st, 2005, 04:38 Thread Starter
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You might understand more if you read the material that is linked to above. It includes the following information:
Quote:
De Guzman was a 12-year-old when his parents sent him to the Netherlands to further his development. Through its clubs and coaches, the Dutch put in the work that made him the player he promises to be. Every significant teenage first of de Guzman's life — first date, first job, first car — has been experienced there. He is reportedly pursuing a Dutch passport, which would ease his transition from the Eredivisie to a major European league.

Soon, Dutch-speaking Dutch league player Jonathan de Guzman will be a Dutch citizen.

At that point, coming home would be the foreign thing to do.
As for Kiyan's comment about playing time, there are never any guarantees of course, no matter which country you play for.

Look at Tomasz Radzinski. He's been with the NT now for ten years, and has played an average of less than 3 NT matches per year (and I might add, scoring a mere 7 goals in the decade). He missed a lot of matches due to club commitments, as do most of the European-based Canadian players.

If he had opted to play originally for his native Poland, you can be sure he would have had more playing time.

And Canadian soccer fans would still be whining a decade later about how we could have had a contending team - if only Radz had decided to play for our side instead! And how wrong they would be.
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post #12 of 56 (permalink) Old December 31st, 2005, 22:30
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[QUOTE=Jeff]You might understand more if you read the material that is linked to above. It includes the following information:



Thats no reason. He has nothing Dutch he was born in Canada. DONE
If his mom/dad were Dutch then I dont have a problem. But, this I do.
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post #13 of 56 (permalink) Old January 1st, 2006, 05:26 Thread Starter
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So I guess you had a problem with Radzinski, who was born in Poland, playing for Canada?
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post #14 of 56 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2006, 01:54
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His family is in Canada he lives from Canada. If thats the case then why dont we just play for the countries that help us develop in soccer instead where we are from?
Then we should not have countries that play in the EU or WC and have all African North American and some Asian players only play for teams like Italy, Holland, England, Spain and Germany.
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post #15 of 56 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2006, 08:02 Thread Starter
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De Guzman lives in Holland and his family is moving there or already live there. He's going to be a Dutch citizen soon.

Players have all kinds of reasons for playing for the countries they play for. Who are you to tell them their own particular reasons are not valid?
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post #16 of 56 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2006, 19:49
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Who are you to tell them their own particular reasons are not valid?
Dont be an idiot I am not telling any1 who to play for. But, the way you talk about it, we should not have NT's but people playing for their leagues. So, what if his parents are moving to Holland. Its not like they moved there as a family and then he started to develop as a soccer player.
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post #17 of 56 (permalink) Old January 3rd, 2006, 00:02 Thread Starter
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I can't continue this "discussion" while you insist on denying obvious facts.
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post #18 of 56 (permalink) Old January 3rd, 2006, 01:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
I can't continue this "discussion" while you insist on denying obvious facts.
What are obvious facts?
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post #19 of 56 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 04:27
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Come on Jeff I am waiting
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post #20 of 56 (permalink) Old January 5th, 2006, 17:31
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I dunno I am in the middle on this issue....just because the practice of gaining citizenship to play nationally for a certain country has been going on, even for Canada, for a long long time, it doesn't necessarily mean its the right thing to do, especially for the development of soccer.

That being said, this is the same old story of no one giving a flying f*ck in Canada about any sort of international sports. It's the same old song and dance all over again.
Why should Jonathan de Guzman owe anything to Canada really, other than the fact that he was born there. He can thank Holland for turning him into the player he is now...not Canada. Canada never has, and most likely never will give a priority to soccer, and until that changes, expect our most talented players like Hargreaves and de Guzman to want to play for more prominent soccer countries than this one.

Its not right, but thats the way it works...players and most people are driven by success but more importantly money, not pride or nationalism.

"I am happy the side survived, because this team is the shining jewel in a city that is symbolic of culture, politeness and civility. I hoped with all my heart that Parma would stay in Serie A, for this outfit and all of Italian football.

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