Calciomercato 2018 - Page 125 - Xtratime Community
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post #2481 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 7th, 2019, 14:02
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Originally Posted by van View Post
I think honestly you can get 10M Euro players or primavera kids or even loanees who will have the same impact as Calhanoglu or Kessié have for us.

Other than that, I do agree that these guys could be decent squad players in a functioning team, with the right coach. I could certainly imagine Kessié being pretty useful for many teams.

But if we can sell two of these and buy a proper staring material players for each two we sell, I'd go for that in a second. For a team like us (i.e. not competing at the highest level twice a week) I truly don't think there's too big a difference between having Callejón and Laxalt vs. Borini and Antonelli as subs. Or how having Kessié and Calhanoglu is better than having Kucka + a proper game changing left winger.

I don't think "calculated risk" applies. They risked the club's financial and FFP situation in basically 7-8 signings like that. It's more like they had no clue at all and signed a whole team of players who don't make a difference and managers who don't make a difference and somehow expected them to make a difference -- and we all fell for it, except for one or two posters here (not me).
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Originally Posted by MrChauvi View Post
We literally signed Bonaventura for about 7million so yes we can get players of that level for cheap.

We've had some weak transfers no denying that but I trust Leo to do a good job and get us back on track.

Signings like Bonaventura are the exception and not the norm. If it was that simple I would agree with your point van, that players at 10M could do the same job as a Kessie/Hakan. Regarding primavera players, sure we have been lucky to see some great ones comes through but again it's something of an exception.
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post #2482 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 7th, 2019, 14:35
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Originally Posted by van View Post
I think honestly you can get 10M Euro players or primavera kids or even loanees who will have the same impact as Calhanoglu or Kessié have for us.

Other than that, I do agree that these guys could be decent squad players in a functioning team, with the right coach. I could certainly imagine Kessié being pretty useful for many teams.

But if we can sell two of these and buy a proper staring material players for each two we sell, I'd go for that in a second. For a team like us (i.e. not competing at the highest level twice a week) I truly don't think there's too big a difference between having Callejón and Laxalt vs. Borini and Antonelli as subs. Or how having Kessié and Calhanoglu is better than having Kucka + a proper game changing left winger.

I don't think "calculated risk" applies. They risked the club's financial and FFP situation in basically 7-8 signings like that. It's more like they had no clue at all and signed a whole team of players who don't make a difference and managers who don't make a difference and somehow expected them to make a difference -- and we all fell for it, except for one or two posters here (not me).
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post #2483 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 7th, 2019, 14:51
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This selling two garbage players to buy a star player is fantasy though. First, it is not likely financially. Secondly, the club has to achieve some status before they are able to attract star players. For now, you should make smart mercato decisions like Paquetta and Piatek for a while until you get to the point of attracting better players.
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post #2484 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 7th, 2019, 15:00
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First point I agree about. Second, we’re AC Milan, still one of the biggest football brands on earth, and if we’re willing to invest, we can attract the best players around.
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post #2485 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 7th, 2019, 15:16
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First point I agree about. Second, we’re AC Milan, still one of the biggest football brands on earth, and if we’re willing to invest, we can attract the best players around.
The football world has changed a lot. Sure you are a big club historically but most players know you are a few years from serie A and even more CL contention. Nouveau-riche clubs like PSG, Man City, Chelsea have definitely shot up in status and you are not likely to surpass them in attracting star players, let alone that they have more money. Inter is in the same boat basically.
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post #2486 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 7th, 2019, 15:29
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By signing Higuain and Bonucci it affirms Milan still holds some clout in the mercato, although the very best are certainly out of our reach.

Putting your eggs in one basket with such signings can obviously work if it's the right one, but agreed that the more pragmatic approach is to find Piatek/Paqueta type signings.
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post #2487 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 7th, 2019, 16:52
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Paquetá and Piatek though both cost close to 40-50 M. I'd imagine that's what you can get for Kessié + Hakan or some such combination. They are not "garbage players" either, that's just missing the point. And I'm not saying buy Hazard either. Buy well-scouted, good players.

Richarlison cost Everton roughly the same we paid for Laxalt + Castillejo. Tell me which makes more sense. I hardly think it would have been impossible to attract him or someone similar either.

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post #2488 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 8th, 2019, 08:54
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This selling two garbage players to buy a star player is fantasy though. First, it is not likely financially.
Indeed. And I'll add that even those valuations of the so-called garbage players are absolutely unrealistic! Imagine the supposed stars of this team.... It's only on the online sphere do I come across silly assertions Suso is a 40-mil-player or how easy it would be to sell Donnarumma for 70 mil, even Sevilla picking up Andre Silva's option, all fantasy football manager material! Only the market dictates such moves, and those opportunities never came along.... Goodness, we were unable to offload Hakan last Jan for 20 mil! Kessie won't fetch anything of value either imho. Let's just accept losses of kind & move forward.

As much as I hate to admit it, but Marotta's MO at Juventus is the way forward. Let's hope for an 80 mil offer for Piatek or Paqueta in the next year or two.

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post #2489 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 8th, 2019, 16:34
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Indeed. And I'll add that even those valuations of the so-called garbage players are absolutely unrealistic! Imagine the supposed stars of this team.... It's only on the online sphere do I come across silly assertions Suso is a 40-mil-player or how easy it would be to sell Donnarumma for 70 mil, even Sevilla picking up Andre Silva's option, all fantasy football manager material! Only the market dictates such moves, and those opportunities never came along.... Goodness, we were unable to offload Hakan last Jan for 20 mil! Kessie won't fetch anything of value either imho. Let's just accept losses of kind & move forward.

As much as I hate to admit it, but Marotta's MO at Juventus is the way forward. Let's hope for an 80 mil offer for Piatek or Paqueta in the next year or two.
I would agree with this ONLY IF Milan were proven good market researchers and made good purchases (like Marotta). Until this year, that hasn't been the case, so better keep Piatek and Paqueta in that case.
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post #2490 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 8th, 2019, 16:56
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Indeed. And I'll add that even those valuations of the so-called garbage players are absolutely unrealistic! Imagine the supposed stars of this team.... It's only on the online sphere do I come across silly assertions Suso is a 40-mil-player or how easy it would be to sell Donnarumma for 70 mil, even Sevilla picking up Andre Silva's option, all fantasy football manager material! Only the market dictates such moves, and those opportunities never came along.... Goodness, we were unable to offload Hakan last Jan for 20 mil! Kessie won't fetch anything of value either imho. Let's just accept losses of kind & move forward.

As much as I hate to admit it, but Marotta's MO at Juventus is the way forward. Let's hope for an 80 mil offer for Piatek or Paqueta in the next year or two.
Sorry, but this is nonsense.

Your valuations are no better than anyone else's. Getting 40 millions for Kessié + Hakan is far from unrealistic, and it's not clear where you're getting that we even tried to offload Calhanoglu, let alone for that specific amount. Suso for 40M also hardly seems impossible. Of course "only the market dictates such moves"... what do you think we're talking about?

It is a fact that we paid for Laxalt + Castillejo almost the same as Everton paid for Richarlison or West Ham for Felipe Anderson, two players who would have improved us greatly.

So you don't believe what you read "online". Unless you're a football agent or journalist based in Milano or someone connected like that who has all kinds of "offline" sources, it's hard to understand what you're even talking about.

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post #2491 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 8th, 2019, 17:06
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Schalke paid us 10 million for KPB, of course some valuations can be met, and easily at that. EPL teams will easily pay 20 million for each of Kessie and Calhanoglu. A team like Brighton paid 20 million for an Iranian winger after 1 good season in Holland.
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post #2492 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 8th, 2019, 18:44
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Your valuations are no better than anyone else's.
Thing is, I didn't put in any valuations myself! In fact, I don't have any. That was simply a humble opinion. Even simpler, I don't make those kind of argumentative points because, contrary to your later remark, I'm not privy to any insider info & certainly not in any position to make any sort of educated guesses.

It's funny, though, you acknowledge the dynamics of the market, yet you're still insistent on Suso's release clause for instance. Fine. Show me the money! When has any club or director around Europe even expressed willingness to get near that 40 mil mark? You can refer to Google btw on Hakan & Red Bull Leipzig last January. You were even comparing his & Kessie's contribution to kids and/or loanees. Now their sales can suddenly raise up 40 mil?!

I can go on & on. Those offers ain't coming in, FACT.

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post #2493 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 8th, 2019, 18:49
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I would agree with this ONLY IF Milan were proven good market researchers and made good purchases (like Marotta). Until this year, that hasn't been the case, so better keep Piatek and Paqueta in that case.
Maybe & hopefully those two prove to be the benchmark to any future recruiting & they continue to develop of course to earn those valuations. After all, they're probably the only ones with any marketable potential IMHO.

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post #2494 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 8th, 2019, 20:29
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When you qualify a potential valuation as "unrealistic" and imply that they would be much lower, you are obviously presenting your own estimate valuation.

I'm not sure how real is Suso's 40M release clause but in any case, release clauses are also part of "the market", obviously, so that point is moot.

It's not clear at all that Milan wanted to get rid of Calhanoglu either. The manager clearly spoke against it for one thing. Unfortunately.

That offers are not coming is not a "fact." You have no idea whether offers come or not. And that you don't hear from offers does not mean that players cannot be sold for certain prices anyway. It may mean that Milan are not selling, period, that they are expecting much more, that the players refused to leave, that offers are handled privately... a million possibilities.

For one thing, which is actually a good reference, Milan itself paid sums north of 20+ million Euro for all those players: Kessié, Musacchio, Rodriguez, Biglia, Castillejo, Kalinic, Silva, Calhanoglu, etc. Some of them will be worth less now, and some the same or more. But it's not like thinking about getting close to 20M for some of them is "completely unrealistic".

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Last edited by van; April 8th, 2019 at 21:16.
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post #2495 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 8th, 2019, 23:40
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Musacchio was 15 plus bonuses up to 18, no clue what the bonuses were. RR was 15.
F&M over spent on the whole but all those named in van's post were 28 or below each. Silva though was 38 for example.
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post #2496 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 8th, 2019, 23:57
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Transfermarkt has Musacchio for 20, Rodriguez for 17 (after his team was relegated I think?). Everyone else cost more than 20, except Laxalt who also cost around 15.

No reason to think several of those would go for less than around 15-20, except the obvious cases like Biglia who is older and injury prone.

I am not sure how selling two of those to buy one player who costs around twice as much is such a contentious idea or deemed so difficult. I also don't understand how folks don't think a bunch teams could pay 20+ for many of these players. The mid-to-bottom table English teams, among others, pay tons of money for players every single transfer window, and the top six just throw money like crazy. Watch the likes Everton and West Ham shop for a forward (again) this summer. Same in Spain. Valencia paid 20 + millions for Kondogbia for example.

edit: just saw that transfermarkt is in dollars.

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post #2497 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 9th, 2019, 09:49
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I had no intention to respond one post earlier because simply we're clearly on different pages & you chose to go full on abstract & fake news on my take. All fine btw, good luck with those convictions. But this Kondogbia example you just used plays exactly to the point I've been trying to make all along! I'm going by memory here, he was transferred to Inter for 40 mil, a couple of seasons later & after a loan spell he moves permanently to Valencia for 20-25 mil max. Two points here. Firstly, clearly a depreciating asset at Inter & that's why there was this sort of probationary loan period. Secondly, no flood of offers from anywhere else, especially the EPL, fighting for the guy's services! It would be fun to witness how you would argue against Inter losing money on this one.... Because Kessie, Hakan & maybe even others are, by your own admission, in a similar situation to Kondogbia's as far as quality & performance go. But miraculously, we shall not lose any money on our hypothetical transactions, weird! The purchasing power of EPL sides like Everton, West Ham, Wolverhampton & others is just a flawed argument. They won't cough up money for fringe players just because you wished upon a star! You have to have substance, anything but whatever's being discussed over here about those guys, ironically.

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post #2498 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 9th, 2019, 13:12
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Transfermarkt has Musacchio for 20, Rodriguez for 17 (after his team was relegated I think?). Everyone else cost more than 20, except Laxalt who also cost around 15.

No reason to think several of those would go for less than around 15-20, except the obvious cases like Biglia who is older and injury prone.

I am not sure how selling two of those to buy one player who costs around twice as much is such a contentious idea or deemed so difficult. I also don't understand how folks don't think a bunch teams could pay 20+ for many of these players. The mid-to-bottom table English teams, among others, pay tons of money for players every single transfer window, and the top six just throw money like crazy. Watch the likes Everton and West Ham shop for a forward (again) this summer. Same in Spain. Valencia paid 20 + millions for Kondogbia for example.

edit: just saw that transfermarkt is in dollars.

It's not that contentious an idea. I don't fully agree with it (and you know my stance on what I hope we do with the squad) but at the end of the day these debates are always going to be heavily based on conjecture.
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post #2499 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 26th, 2019, 03:57
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Quite a bit of rumors these days, as can be expected when the season comes to a close, and even though CL participation will be a big factor.

I'm more excited about a manager and selling players than about signings these days.


- Linked with Sarri and Unai Emery

- Seems like the Saint Maximim lead has cooled off.

- Hakan rumored to attract interest from the EPL, at what seem like fantastically high prices.

- Laxalt linked with Newcastle.

- More rumors of Cutrone move to another Serie A side, Torino keeps being mentioned, which is an odd one unless they sell Belotti. Same with Lazio.

- We were linked with Malcolm from Barcelona, and his agent denied.

- We were briefly linked with Insigne, in one version in part exchange for Suso, along with a bunch of teams that would be much more realistic options.

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post #2500 of 2608 (permalink) Old April 26th, 2019, 13:29
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Those rumours point to an exciting summer ahead
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