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Old August 26th, 2011, 12:22   #81
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Few Italians have tried and they have been kicked out faster than they realize. Don't jump, ok. You can keep your Napoli and garbage, we have clean streets and more tourists than we can already handle.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 12:25   #82
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Few Italians have tried and they have been kicked out faster than they realize.
1- probably your legal system is not so dumb as you have described it
2- surely Estonia is less appealing than Germany, who have a strong problem with Italian mafias ('ndrangheta in particular)
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Old August 26th, 2011, 12:39   #83
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Northeners are honest folk, too bad about your countrymen.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 12:43   #84
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Northeners are honest folk
They are not good enough at being dishonest or they are very good at not appearing for what they really are.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 14:01   #85
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And that's a bad thing? You'd rather have honest crooks than crookedly honest people? I find the latter better for everyone.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 14:33   #86
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You'd rather have honest crooks than crookedly honest people?
I have never talked about these honest crooks and crookedly honest people you are talking about now. I can't even say they have a meaning since a person is either a crook or honest. The honest crook is what? A person who steals all your things but leaves your socks? And the crookedly honest? Robin Hood? Try to write things which mean something, FFS.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 14:52   #87
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Originally Posted by ToniSamp
they are very good at not appearing for what they really are.
Well what did you mean by that exactly? I thought you meant that they're dishonest on the inside, but act in a seemingly honest way, which would make them crookedly honest. The end result still makes everyone's life easier, unlike people who just abuse every system as much as they possibly can with no shame. But hey at least they're "smart", when it comes to fullfilling their selfish desires of course. Those I call honestly crooked. Russians are like that, and before someone gets their panties in a twist, I live with one and she's always mentioning that, since it's such a fundamental difference between Finns and Russians. She seems to find us naïve and submissive, even if she's not exactly complimenting Russians for their behaviour either. But she still acts that way herself, since "that's how we are". Honest crooks, the lot of them.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:00   #88
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Well what did you mean by that exactly? I thought you meant that they're dishonest on the inside, but act in a seemingly honest way, which would make them crookedly honest. The end result still makes everyone's life easier, unlike people who just abuse every system as much as they possibly can with no shame. But hey at least they're "smart", when it comes to fullfilling their selfish desires of course. Those I call honestly crooked.
How would you define Berlusconi?
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:08   #89
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Honest crook.

From my point of view it's unbelievable that he could stay in power for so long, but when there are enough people around who are honest crooks themselves, or at least find it a justifiable way to be and act, then... well it's understandable. It wouldn't be here. He'd be laughed out the door before he got anywhere near any position of power.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:11   #90
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Originally Posted by ToniSamp
They are not good enough at being dishonest.
oh, btw, I wonder how this group of people suits your definition of honestly crook. It can't infact I didn't offer two alternatives which were necessarily antithetical, yours are.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:15   #91
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Originally Posted by MarieL
Honest crook.

From my point of view it's unbelievable that he could stay in power for so long, but when there are enough people around who are honest crooks themselves, or at least find it a justifiable way to be and act, then... well it's understandable. It wouldn't be here. He'd be laughed out the door before he got anywhere near any position of power.
how did you think he got the power? Thanks to the honest crooks around him or thanks to the people who thought he could change the country for the better... who thought that he was honest in what he did because this was the message they got?
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:18   #92
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Originally Posted by ToniSamp
oh, btw, I wonder how this group of people suits your definition of honestly crook. It can't infact I didn't offer two alternatives which were necessarily antithetical, yours are.
Well weren't you giving two alternatives for why Northeners appear honest? I was talking about Italians as honest crooks and Northeners as crookedly honest (according to your logic). So what exactly are you trying to say? And it does suit the definition of crookedly honest (don't get it twisted ) They want to cheat thus are crooked, but they fail, so the end result is honest.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:24   #93
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Just admit the terminology doesn't cover all the ground you want it to.

And it sounds awful.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:24   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp
how did you think he got the power? Thanks to the honest crooks around him or thanks to the people who thought he could change the country for the better... who thought that he was honest in what he did because this was the message they got?
I don't know how one could get that message. I mean just look at him! Well maybe he was less of a freak back in the day, I wasn't old enough to remember. But the issue isn't how he got into power, anyone can fool people for a short period of time. How they stay in power despite being so totally... crooked... well it's something else entirely. People must be able to turn a blind eye, for whatever reason.


Firdy, shuddup.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:25   #95
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Well weren't you giving two alternatives for why Northeners appear honest? I was talking about Italians as honest crooks and Northeners as crookedly honest (according to your logic). So what exactly are you trying to say? And it does suit the definition of crookedly honest (don't get it twisted ) They want to cheat thus are crooked, but they fail, so the end result is honest.
Are you telling me that a dishonest person who fails at becoming Al Capone is... honest?
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:28   #96
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Are you telling me that a dishonest person who fails at becoming Al Capone is... honest?
NO. It's about the end result! If he doesn't manage to fool anyone and instead appears to others as crooked, then the honesty of the situation is restored without permanent damage. Too abstract for you? Well boohoo.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:32   #97
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Firdy, shuddup.
I was just trying to save you from being further exposed but it looks like you want to go the distance with this.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:32   #98
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I don't know how one could get that message. I mean just look at him! Well maybe he was less of a freak back in the day, I wasn't old enough to remember. But the issue isn't how he got into power, anyone can fool people for a short period of time. How they stay in power despite being so totally... crooked... well it's something else entirely. People must be able to turn a blind eye, for whatever reason.
You are not a ignorant housewife who works 24/7 for his family, watching Berlusconi's TV while ironing or cooking. And yes, he was definitely less of a freak. Internet was not around, at least in Italy, the way it is now, so he was surely less exposed too.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 15:35   #99
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NO. It's about the end result! If he doesn't manage to fool anyone and instead appears to others as crooked, then the honesty of the situation is restored without permanent damage. Too abstract for you? Well boohoo.
It's simply much different from what I meant, which was exactly my first point.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 18:35   #100
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So what happens to the housewife upon divorce? Just asking.
Depends. What were the terms of the contract?

A parent still has to provide for the children based on capacity, as it is now.
Freedom is the great liberator of the mind – it threatens only the comfort of the sequacious intellect.

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