Is it time for Delio Rossi to go !??

Amir · December 15th, 2008, 10:33

You may know by now that I am the loudest voice in Lazio forums calling for Delio Rossi to go.

I appricate what he has done for Lazio. I really do. But now more important players are arriving at Lazio and competition for starting 11 (and even more) is growing. And this is where he lacks authority, to bench an important player.

Look at Fiorentina, Pazzini is a great striker, but is so rarely played after Gila`s arrival. Berbatov and Tevez are great, but one of them goes to bench most of the time.

Also, tactical formation and players used to impose that on the field are too bloody confusing even for most experienced calcio journalists.

Without wishing to further continue with my critics, I really think the time has come for Lotito to find a new and more experienced coach, who will impose his authority over the players and use a better suited tactics to those used thus far.

It is not that we are standing very bad on the standings, but with the way Serie A has moved so far and with the team at disposal, we can do much much better.

A10 · December 15th, 2008, 10:45

What makes you feel that there is a lack of authority over the players.... ?

I thought DRossi might have became a victim of his own success in building them, if there is a case of that.

Too many good players not to play them?

Osman · December 15th, 2008, 13:52

Cant believe you said Pazzini is a great striker. Gila is a great striker, Pazzini is average.

Anomander Rake · December 15th, 2008, 14:08

Quote:

Look at Fiorentina, Pazzini is a great striker

No, he isn't. Look at Juventus, Nedved is playing all the time despite being a ghost on the pitch in most games. Or Milan with Kaladze, who is about the level of Serie c player these days. Find me a coach who doesn't have his favourites. If that was Rossi's main problem we would have a lot more points now. And he has benched at some point Rocchi, Foggia, Zarate and Pandev, he benched De Silvestri who is a fan favourite, he drove out Di Canio, etc. If he has to go it must be for the way whatever the formation and the players we just about always start playing actual football only in the second half. Problem is I don't really see us finding a better coach.
And frankly, our roster si not that great in order to demand many more points than we have amassed so far. Call me cynical but I suspect that quite a few of our players don't bother giving their best often enough because their objective is merely to find another club which will pay them a higher wage. We also lack a leader, not sure what a coach can do about that.

Boyo · December 15th, 2008, 16:33

Is this his 3rd or 4th season? I can't remember. That's already quite long, considering the short terms of those who went before him (with the exception of Eriksson). Zoff, Zaccheroni, Mancini, Caso and Papadopulo all came and went within roughly a 4 year period. Not to mention the often uncertain fate of managers in the Serie A in general. So certainly Lotito has faith in Rossi. But if, after the fine start to the season, we continue to disappoint, and miss out on European football, even Lotito will have to draw the line somewhere. This season we invested a lot in brining new players and with the squad that we have we should certainly be able to compete for a top 5 finish. If we don't achieve that, I expect we'll see a new coach during the summer.

aquila · December 15th, 2008, 17:52

Taken for granted that we are talking about replacing Rossi at the end of this season (doing that this season would be a suicide, unless we get a real wizard), it is evident that Rossi has taken a few surprising (euphemism) decisions regarding line ups in recent games. Decisions that he had to change during the course of the matches, sometimes succesfully, sometimes not, in all cases presenting the opponents with half of the game, a present that a team (leaving aside a team like Lazio) can't afford. The first question arising is why Rossi takes those decisions? Yesterday, for example, hand up who was expecting Belleri and Dal Nero in the starting 11. Again, Rossi has all the means to evaluate his players all week long, so those decisions are supposed to be theorically reasonable for what the players did in the trainings before the week end match.

But then, in the week end game, things go differently. Probably Belleri was great in the trainings, Dal Nero outclassed Zàrate, Mauri was the same anyway, Rozehnal scored three or four own goals. And then, accordingly, Rossi takes his decisions. During the match, Belleri is simply inadequate, Dal Nero a mediocre player and so on. We all agree that trainings are one thing and the real game is completely another one, otherwise Inzaghi and Makinwa would start in evry match. Rossi is wrong when he does not stick to a starting 11 and goes on with that. For example, I think he should have go on with the Zàrate-Pandev-Foggia trident, regardless of Rocchi's moans.

The main problem is that Lazio have a mid-table defense (especially in the middle), a midfield that has not been properly strengthened after Mudingayi's and Mutarelli's departures, and only attack is worth a 4th-8th position. Rossi might be one of the reasons for our current bad results, but he's not the first in the list. And maybe not even the second.

aquila · December 16th, 2008, 16:33

http://www.sportmediaset.it/calcio/a...olo18949.shtml

And SportM****set, that in cases like that it is like a shark sensing the blood coming around, has strated with rumours about Lazio (allegedly) new coach. And Donadoni is the first name coiming up (this season).

Only a rumour, of course. But if I had to choose between Rossi and Donadoni, well, Delio any day. The problem is that if Lotito will sack Rossi, it's not that Lazio will get who knows which big name. Forget about it. Already last spring some rumours arose about Rossi's successor, and they were mainly Serie B emerging coaches or Novellino stuff-like. No, thanks.

Anomander Rake · December 16th, 2008, 16:54

We could do worse than Donadoni, IMO. Of course, his Livorno adventure means the fans won't like him too much at first.

You are saying Rozenhal was not injured on Sunday? Did he have a nightmare agaisnt Inter then? If not I really don't see why he didn't start, in my opinion he has been by some margin our best CB this season.

aquila · December 16th, 2008, 17:24

Quote:

We could do worse than Donadoni, IMO.

That's for sure. When last spring I heard that Rimini's coach Acori saying "I would be honoured to become Lazio coach", I started having goose flesh. Leaving Novellino aside, of course. We were in deep waters those days, but not so deep. Anyway, fans have already started chanting "Simeone, Simeone" some games ago (against Genoa, perhaps), forgetting that the GREAT "EL Cholo" failed with River.

Quote:

You are saying Rozenhal was not injured on Sunday? Did he have a nightmare agaisnt Inter then? If not I really don't see why he didn't start, in my opinion he has been by some margin our best CB this season.

Aye. In the post Udinese-Lazio interview, Rossi said that he fielded Diakité "because Rozehnal had played a lot of games in the last weeks".

Kafka · December 17th, 2008, 08:08

Simeone also won a title with River, didn't he?

I think every voice that calls for Rossi's sacking should propose a replacement. A more experienced coach, Amir? Please tell me who...

Amir · December 17th, 2008, 08:26

I would go with Donadoni any day actually.

More for his coaching the Italian NT rather than Livorno.

Don`t forget that Donadoni was coached by Arrigo Sachi and other coaches and you can learn so much from them. When Delio Rossi was appointed, I had never heard of him before while I repeat, Donadoni coached Italian NT full of stars and did pretty much ok I would say.

Now my dream coach would be (but don`t tell anyone) Maurizio Pellegrini of Villareal.

Anomander Rake · December 17th, 2008, 10:03

And Zaccheronni had won a scudetto when we hired him. Where is he now? I think Donadoni could be a good option but let's face it, just because his buddy Albertini picked him to lead the Azzurri doesn't necessarily mean he is all that. These days national teams are led by all kinds of morons (Domenech, Stoichkov) and I'd venture that managing a NT requires different skills than managing a club side. And of course, due to his Azzurri adventure he would probably want a wage our favourite would never even consider granting him.

Amir · December 17th, 2008, 10:54

Zaccheroni and Del Neri are coaches who can coach only certain teams that cultivate traditionally systems they apply.

Udinese most often plays 3-5-2 and when Zaccheroni wanted to apply that with Lazio or whatever team, he failed. The same went for Dino Zoff when we had one of the strongest teams and he insisted on 3-5-2 (Nesta, Stam, Couto at the back, Crespo, Lopez up front).

Lazio has a 4-4-2 system on its DNA, and such formation should be applied, with minor changes occasionally here and there.

Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Capello, Lippi and all other top coaches of the last 2 decades prefer 4-4-2, which means it is the safest system to use.

Thereby, a coach with such an approach should be brought.

aquila · December 17th, 2008, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafka

Simeone also won a title with River, didn't he?

True. But I wonder if only the departures of Sanchez, Abreu and Carrizo can turn a title winners into such a failure. For how much I like Simeone, last Apertura tournament has cast some shadow about his ability as coach. Besides, I don’t know if Lotito would appoint anyone so beloved by fans. Rightly or wrongly, Lotito seem to prefer men who have nothing to do with Lazio. The same goes for Mihajlovic (in case of a future possible rumour about Sinisha coming back). Casiraghi is another matter, however. He was a Lazio players who kept distance with “fans”, and maybe Lotito would think about appointing him, if he will ever think about that, of course.

As for Donadoni, in the same report I linked, it is written that Torino president Cairo wanted him to replace De Biasi, but when Cairo heard Donadoni’s demands about new players to buy and his wages, Torino president decided to turn for Novellino. I have this feeling that Donadoni would not ask for less than 1 / 1,5 million euro a season, which for Lazio’s (Lotito’s) standards is too much.

Anomander Rake · December 17th, 2008, 13:52

Then again Cairo was probably still paying Novellino's wage since he fired him recently, so whatever Donadoni asked for would have been more than the cost of Novellino getting back.

aquila · December 17th, 2008, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amir

Lazio has a 4-4-2 system on its DNA, and such formation should be applied, with minor changes occasionally here and there.

Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Capello, Lippi and all other top coaches of the last 2 decades prefer 4-4-2, which means it is the safest system to use.

Thereby, a coach with such an approach should be brought.

I too would like to see this team playing the 4-4-2, but I’m afraid we haven’t the right players to apply successfully that tactics and it would be rather fruitless. For what I remember from the games I have seen this season, Rossi tried the 4-4-2 in the first half at Chievo and at Milan, and the results have not been extraordinary, to say the least.

Although we have one of the slowest defenses in Serie A, we all agree that the four man defense is the best choice. Rossi tried the 3 man in the summer friendlies, and then he has wisely come back to the flat 4. The reason he tried that 3 man is, in my opinion, that he wanted still to field the trident (or a trequartista and two strikers) having four midfielders behind them.

The question with our midfield is that we haven’t many (good) midfielders fit for the 4-4-2. We have a lot of trequartisti (Mauri, Meghni, Dal Nero, Foggia) and only Ledesma, Dabo and Brocchi would fit in a hypothetic 4-4-2 without big problems (if we don’t consider, and we don’t, Firmani, Manfredini, the eternally injured Matuzalem, and to some extent, also Lichtsteiner who is not a pure midfielder). But then, we should just kick all of those trequartisti out.

Theoretically, another solution would be fielding all our backs on the sides, De Silvestri-Lichtsteiner on the right and Radu-Kolarov on the left, but that would be a big question point, and besides, that would still miss the point of one of the most common plays in the attacking part of 4-4-2: the cross from the wings.

Notoriously, we lack a towering forward strong in the air, so those plays on the wings (that is one of the strong points of the 4-4-2) would be quite ineffective. Rocchi is the most Lazio decent player closer to those characteristics. But fielding Rocchi in the 4-4-2 would mean leaving out either Pandev or Zàrate, a luxury that most teams (and above all Lazio) can’t afford.

Amir · December 18th, 2008, 08:18

I am aware of the fact that we do not have many suitable players for the 4-4-2, but we are moving into a January market and we can easily sell 2 -3 players and purchase 2 who can fit 4-4-2.

I think a midfield composed of (for instance): Brocchi-Ledesma-Dabo-Mauri would not be bad for a start. Of course, when Mautzalem starts playing he can be a good candidate for a middle.

Kafka · December 18th, 2008, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amir

Zaccheroni and Del Neri are coaches who can coach only certain teams that cultivate traditionally systems they apply.

Udinese most often plays 3-5-2 and when Zaccheroni wanted to apply that with Lazio or whatever team, he failed. The same went for Dino Zoff when we had one of the strongest teams and he insisted on 3-5-2 (Nesta, Stam, Couto at the back, Crespo, Lopez up front).

Lazio has a 4-4-2 system on its DNA, and such formation should be applied, with minor changes occasionally here and there.

Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Capello, Lippi and all other top coaches of the last 2 decades prefer 4-4-2, which means it is the safest system to use.

Thereby, a coach with such an approach should be brought.

There is so much wrong with this post...first of all, Zaccheroni played 4-4-2 with us. In fact the only good idea he had was using Stam as the RB. Zoff tried 3-5-2 in pre-season and in a couple of proper games and it didn't work. Mostly he used 4-4-2 as well. I thought the failure of 2001/02 had more to do with selling Nedved and Veron and replacing them with Mendieta and out-of-form Fiore than anything else...plus of course Zaccheroni's idiocy.

And the DNA bit...please we're not at the Milanello asylum, football clubs don't have DNA. We won the Scudetto playing 4-5-1 a lot of time. Zeman used 4-3-3 to great effect, and Mancini's Lazio played its best football with 4-3-3.

Plus look at how Man Utd or Lippi's Italy play. Is it traditional 4-4-2? The formation doesn't mean as much as you think...Ronaldo for example is listed as the RW, yet he rarely defends, making the Man Utd system 4-3-3 most of the time. Italy won the World Cup playing one striker, and they often play with three strikers.

I think coaches should play the formation and tactic that best suits the team. How does a traditional 4-4-2 fit with the current Lazio squad? I'd dare say that Zarate, Pandev and Rocchi are the best three Lazio players. We would be fools not to try field them all. "Midfield of Brocchi-Ledesma-Dabo-Mauri"? If we field Brocchi and Mauri and bench Pandev, Zarate or Rocchi, I'm going to go insane...

Biancoceleste · December 18th, 2008, 10:42

Kafka just summed up my opinion. I have nothing else to say.

Anomander Rake · December 18th, 2008, 11:17

The idea of playing three DMs and Mauri and call it 4-4-2 is rather weird. It will either be 4-3-1-2 or it won't work because Mauri even in the days of yore when he was actually good, couldn't play as a proper left winger. Now we have Foggia and Pandev for the trequartista spot, we have no tall strikers and despite the current slump our attack is still one of the most productive in Serie A. If we have to play 4-4-2 for some reason I'd much rather play Kolarov and Lichtsteiner/De Silvestri as wide midfielders than Brocchi and Mauri who can hardly cross the ball properly, let alone dribble past players.
The great thing about the current Lazio attack (when in form) is the mobility and the technical abilities of the forwards. Even Rocchi can show nice touches and is able to combine well with Pandev especially (when he is not sulking about not being first choice or whatever, that is). To sacrifice that in order to play Brocchi and Mauri when we already a massive problem with midfield creativity would be rather counter productive. And to do for the sake of a system for which Brocchi and Mauri are not fit to begin with (flat 4-4-2, I assume you mean flat because we already play 4-4-2, albeit we call it 4-3-1-2) would be suicidal.

Quote:

I thought the failure of 2001/02 had more to do with selling Nedved and Veron and replacing them with Mendieta and out-of-form Fiore than anything else...plus of course Zaccheroni's idiocy.

Don't forget Stam's doping ban, I think we only lost one game when Stam was playing.