On Calciopoli again. Per non dimenticare! - Xtratime Community
 16Likes
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 60 (permalink) Old March 14th, 2017, 10:09 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
ToniSamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2002
Posts: 41,769
On Calciopoli again. Per non dimenticare!

Yeah, Facchetti alive would not be bad. He was a gentleman. I can't believe some (actually a lot of) Juventus fans vomit so much hatred on a person who was "clean". Even "naive" if you like. He was a model for any young football player and that is the reason why Moratti chose him as the chairman of Inter. Just compare the content of the calls of Facchetti and Moggi to Bergamo/Pairetto and you get the huge difference. They are like the white knight/cowboy and the black one.
ToniSamp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 60 (permalink) Old March 15th, 2017, 01:02
Rising Star
 
DNA Gobbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2015
Teams: Juventus
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
Yeah, Facchetti alive would not be bad. He was a gentleman. I can't believe some (actually a lot of) Juventus fans vomit so much hatred on a person who was "clean". Even "naive" if you like. He was a model for any young football player and that is the reason why Moratti chose him as the chairman of Inter. Just compare the content of the calls of Facchetti and Moggi to Bergamo/Pairetto and you get the huge difference. They are like the white knight/cowboy and the black one.
I would say that what both of them did was very similar.

Judge: 'Inter lobbied referees' | Football Italia

Calciopoli II: Naples Trial Summary in English | Bleacher Report
DNA Gobbo is offline  
post #3 of 60 (permalink) Old March 15th, 2017, 08:18 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
ToniSamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2002
Posts: 41,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA Gobbo View Post
actually, the first article underlines that
“Moggi, in referring to the sporting justice system and the behaviour of Facchetti certainly did not invent the circumstances, even if they were less serious than his own".
Much less serious actually if you have a clue of what went on or just care to now. There is a pretty huge different in the calls between Facchetti and Moggi to the designators. Do we really need to go through them for the nth time in this forum? If you don't get the difference in the position of Moggi and Facchetti just answer these questions: whom did Della Valle call when he was frightened Fiorentina could go down to serie B? Moggi or Facchetti? Who used the Swiss SIMs? Moggi or Facchetti?

Last edited by ToniSamp; March 15th, 2017 at 08:41.
ToniSamp is offline  
 
post #4 of 60 (permalink) Old March 15th, 2017, 19:55
Rising Star
 
DNA Gobbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2015
Teams: Juventus
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
actually, the first article underlines that
“Moggi, in referring to the sporting justice system and the behaviour of Facchetti certainly did not invent the circumstances, even if they were less serious than his own".
Much less serious actually if you have a clue of what went on or just care to now. There is a pretty huge different in the calls between Facchetti and Moggi to the designators. Do we really need to go through them for the nth time in this forum? If you don't get the difference in the position of Moggi and Facchetti just answer these questions: whom did Della Valle call when he was frightened Fiorentina could go down to serie B? Moggi or Facchetti? Who used the Swiss SIMs? Moggi or Facchetti?
The discussion isn't about who was worse. You said Facchetti was clean. That's what I'm addressing.

First, I wonder how you can possibly know that he was clean unless you were a close friend/associate etc.? You have no way of knowing that. Secondly, two separate judges here are declaring that Facchetti did something wrong. These are judges. I will go with what they have to say over a guy on a forum.

Also, the fact Moggi's actions were worse doesn't prove Facchetti was clean.
DNA Gobbo is offline  
post #5 of 60 (permalink) Old March 15th, 2017, 20:47 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
ToniSamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2002
Posts: 41,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA Gobbo View Post
The discussion isn't about who was worse. You said Facchetti was clean. That's what I'm addressing.

First, I wonder how you can possibly know that he was clean unless you were a close friend/associate etc.? You have no way of knowing that. Secondly, two separate judges here are declaring that Facchetti did something wrong. These are judges. I will go with what they have to say over a guy on a forum.

Also, the fact Moggi's actions were worse doesn't prove Facchetti was clean.
Good. Go with the judges, but do it properly. Do not follow them just when you like it.
Talking to the designators about referees was against the rules but it hardly makes a person "dirty". It was a bad behavior which became a bad habit because the designators allowed it. Much worse is what Moggi used to do, but here you clearly prefer to stop following the judges.
ToniSamp is offline  
post #6 of 60 (permalink) Old March 15th, 2017, 22:13
Rising Star
 
DNA Gobbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2015
Teams: Juventus
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
Much worse is what Moggi used to do
Yeah? Like what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
but here you clearly prefer to stop following the judges.
You make too many assumptions like this just like the one where you are in any position to claim Facchetti was clean. And bringing Moggi into the discussion doesn't prove Facchetti was clean. This is your argument: Speed limit is 60. One guy's doing 80. The other guy's doing 75. Cop tickets the guy going 80 but doesn't pull over the guy doing 75. Hence, the guy doing 75 was not speeding because the guy going 80 was going faster and cop only pulled him over. That argument don't fly.
DNA Gobbo is offline  
post #7 of 60 (permalink) Old March 15th, 2017, 22:53 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
ToniSamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2002
Posts: 41,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA Gobbo View Post
Yeah? Like what?
You ignored my hint before and now you ask me again. Whom did Della Valle call when he needed to avoid the relegation of Fiorentina? Facchetti or Moggi? Moggi! And Moggi answered: "ci pensiamo noi a salvarti". lol. Not: who the **** do you think I am? Not: I can't do anything for you, play fair. He answered: CI PENSIAMO NOI A SALVARTI! (We take care of saving you). Come on, explain this!

Quote:
You make too many assumptions like this just like the one where you are in any position to claim Facchetti was clean. And bringing Moggi into the discussion doesn't prove Facchetti was clean. This is your argument: Speed limit is 60. One guy's doing 80. The other guy's doing 75. Cop tickets the guy going 80 but doesn't pull over the guy doing 75. Hence, the guy doing 75 was not speeding because the guy going 80 was going faster and cop only pulled him over. That argument don't fly.
If ever you have read the dialogues between Facchetti and the designators, which I strongly doubt, it should not be difficult for you to realize that if Facchetti did 75, then Moggi was riding a rocket. Tell me a point in those dialogues in which Facchetti suggests he has some power and/or threats to do something, the way Moggi clearly does. This is the difference between a person who demands (Facchetti) and one who doesn't need to demand because he has the control of everything (Moggi).
Moggi got away with it (the usual statute of limitations) but according to Cassazione Moggi was "the inventor of the system which affected the results of the season 2004-2005 (and not just that one)". He was both guilty of fraud and criminal association. This is what the judges told you in 2015 and you ignored them. Do you really want to compare Facchetti to Moggi again?
Firdaus and Nerazzurri4life like this.
ToniSamp is offline  
post #8 of 60 (permalink) Old March 16th, 2017, 04:04
Rising Star
 
DNA Gobbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2015
Teams: Juventus
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
You ignored my hint before and now you ask me again. Whom did Della Valle call when he needed to avoid the relegation of Fiorentina? Facchetti or Moggi? Moggi! And Moggi answered: "ci pensiamo noi a salvarti". lol. Not: who the **** do you think I am? Not: I can't do anything for you, play fair. He answered: CI PENSIAMO NOI A SALVARTI! (We take care of saving you). Come on, explain this!
You post 2 sentences from what is presumably a longer conversation and you want me to explain it? You wouldn't happen to have a link to the entire conversation would you?

And is this the worst of it? Any transcripts of Moggi talking about fixing matches or bribing refs? I've been trying to track anything like that down since 2006. If you got anything please share that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
If ever you have read the dialogues between Facchetti and the designators, which I strongly doubt, it should not be difficult for you to realize that if Facchetti did 75, then Moggi was riding a rocket.
Moggi being dirty does not prove Facchetti was clean. Moggi being dirtier does not prove Facchetti was clean either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
according to Cassazione Moggi was "the inventor of the system which affected the results of the season 2004-2005 (and not just that one)". He was both guilty of fraud and criminal association.
Any specifics on how the championship was affected? Which games were fixed? How Moggi did it? What he exactly did? 11 years later I still have no clue. The article you posted does not give any specifics. Maybe the problem is with Google translate?
DNA Gobbo is offline  
post #9 of 60 (permalink) Old March 16th, 2017, 09:50 Thread Starter
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
ToniSamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2002
Posts: 41,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA Gobbo View Post
You post 2 sentences from what is presumably a longer conversation and you want me to explain it? You wouldn't happen to have a link to the entire conversation would you?

And is this the worst of it? Any transcripts of Moggi talking about fixing matches or bribing refs? I've been trying to track anything like that down since 2006. If you got anything please share that.
Answer THAT easy question: why did Della Valle call Moggi and not Facchetti? Do you want the conversation? Here it is: Della Valle: "Siamo sotto schiaffo" Moggi: "Tranquillo, ti salviamo noi" - Serie A - Calcio - Sport - Repubblica.it
Do you think you can trust la Repubblica? I can find another source if you don't like it.

Quote:
Moggi being dirty does not prove Facchetti was clean. Moggi being dirtier does not prove Facchetti was clean either.
You clearly don't get the difference between the Devil and the sinner (for example). Let it go! It's bigger than you. I thought you were just biased but probably you are also clueless.

Quote:
Any specifics on how the championship was affected? Which games were fixed? How Moggi did it? What he exactly did? 11 years later I still have no clue. The article you posted does not give any specifics. Maybe the problem is with Google translate?
Google translate can't help a clueless guy. I mean: it could be the best translator but if you don't know what the article talks about there is little Google Translate can do for you. Let me remind you that in a previous post you could not trust a guy of a forum (me) over the judges. Now I have posted the final word of the judges on Moggi. Again, do you need a source different from La Repubblica? Any source just reports the same facts.
http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/09-09-...?refresh_ce-cp
http://www.tuttosport.com/news/calci.../?cookieAccept
http://ilsecoloxix.it/p/sport/2015/0...linquere.shtml
http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2015...alcio/2021477/

Because THOSE are FACTS! They are the so called "motivazioni" (a sort of explanation) to the final verdict on Moggi. Can't you accept it? Do not blame Google Translator (lol). It's so funny that before, in this thread, you wanted the words of the judge because you could not accept the words of "a guy on a forum" and now that you have the words of the judges you want the opinion (and evidences! lol) from that exact same "guy on a forum". Consistency?
Firdaus likes this.

Last edited by ToniSamp; March 16th, 2017 at 10:27.
ToniSamp is offline  
post #10 of 60 (permalink) Old March 16th, 2017, 13:34
Legend
 
Primo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01 2000
Location: NY
Teams: AS Roma
Posts: 12,657
You clearly don't get the difference between the Devil and the sinner (for example). Let it go! It's bigger than you. I thought you were just biased but probably you are also clueless. >>


It works if you work it.
Primo is offline  
post #11 of 60 (permalink) Old March 17th, 2017, 04:05
Rising Star
 
DNA Gobbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2015
Teams: Juventus
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
Answer THAT easy question: why did Della Valle call Moggi and not Facchetti? Do you want the conversation? Here it is: Della Valle: "Siamo sotto schiaffo" Moggi: "Tranquillo, ti salviamo noi" - Serie A - Calcio - Sport - Repubblica.it
Do you think you can trust la Repubblica? I can find another source if you don't like it.
Della Valle calling Moggi still does not mean that Facchetti was clean. All it may prove is that Moggi was dirtier than Facchetti.

Is this the worst of it? Any converstations where Moggi talks about fixing games or bribing refs? Those are the ones I'm interested in. Good luck!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
You clearly don't get the difference between the Devil and the sinner (for example). Let it go! It's bigger than you. I thought you were just biased but probably you are also clueless.
Clearly you don't get that Moggi's guilt or innocence has no impact on Facchetti's guilt or innocence. In 2011 Stefano Palazzi issued a report and claimed Facchetti violated article 6. Please tell me more about Facchetti being 'clean'. I'm clueless and biased? Lol...you might wanna look in a mirror sometime.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
Because THOSE are FACTS! They are the so called "motivazioni" (a sort of explanation) to the final verdict on Moggi. Can't you accept it? Do not blame Google Translator (lol).
I think if you go back and read again you will see I asked if there was anything in there specific about match fixing or bribing refs. There isn't. You need to learn to read and follow what is being said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
It's so funny that before, in this thread, you wanted the words of the judge because you could not accept the words of "a guy on a forum" and now that you have the words of the judges you want the opinion (and evidences! lol) from that exact same "guy on a forum". Consistency?
Lol...speaking of clueless...where did I ask you for your opinion on the verdict? Can you produce that quote for me?
DNA Gobbo is offline  
post #12 of 60 (permalink) Old March 17th, 2017, 05:55
Star Player
 
Rossonero23's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2012
Teams: AC Milan
Posts: 4,232
juventus should of been sent to serie D.

In giro per il mondo
C’è solo una bandiera
Ha solo due colori
È quella rossonera
È quando vedo il milan
Non ci stò dentro più
Io canto per il diavolo
Dai fallo pure tu
Rossonero23 is offline  
post #13 of 60 (permalink) Old March 17th, 2017, 06:42
Professional Pirate
International
 
sinoy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02 2005
Location: Canada
Teams: False 9
Posts: 7,012
Stop feeding the troll

But seriously...didn't Moggi lock a ref in the janitors room for a night because he didnt like the result of a game
ToniSamp likes this.
sinoy1 is offline  
post #14 of 60 (permalink) Old March 17th, 2017, 07:34
Rising Star
 
dpforever10's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2016
Posts: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinoy1 View Post
But seriously...didn't Moggi lock a ref in the janitors room for a night because he didnt like the result of a game
Didn't Franco Sensi gift Serie A referees Rolex watches for Christmas?

But no, the locking down of Paparesta story was denied by himself as well as the wiretaps..

"I have never had, absolutely, any perception of a locked door or anything. I came to know about the locking when it came out on the news saying that in Reggio Calabria there was a referee locked into the dressing rooms, but I didn’t imagine it was my case. Truly I had no feels about this locking. […] They (Juventus executives – Ed) left slamming the door. But about the locking of the dressing room door or if that ever happened, I haven’t had perception. Still, I have never tried to leave the dressing room and found the door locked.”

David Endt: “Inter looks like a beautiful diva in blue and black, but in reality she is nothing more than a prostitute.”
dpforever10 is offline  
post #15 of 60 (permalink) Old March 17th, 2017, 07:42
Rising Star
 
dpforever10's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2016
Posts: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossonero23 View Post
juventus should of been sent to serie D.
Funny coming from a Milan fan, whose club was also involved in "Calciopoli" and relegated earlier too
dr hackenbush likes this.

David Endt: “Inter looks like a beautiful diva in blue and black, but in reality she is nothing more than a prostitute.”
dpforever10 is offline  
post #16 of 60 (permalink) Old March 17th, 2017, 07:48
Rising Star
 
dr hackenbush's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03 2016
Teams: AS Roma
Posts: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpforever10 View Post
Didn't Franco Sensi gift Serie A referees Rolex watches for Christmas?

But no, the locking down of Paparesta story was denied by himself as well as the wiretaps..

"I have never had, absolutely, any perception of a locked door or anything. I came to know about the locking when it came out on the news saying that in Reggio Calabria there was a referee locked into the dressing rooms, but I didn’t imagine it was my case. Truly I had no feels about this locking. […] They (Juventus executives – Ed) left slamming the door. But about the locking of the dressing room door or if that ever happened, I haven’t had perception. Still, I have never tried to leave the dressing room and found the door locked.”
Cute. He tried to take the game to cheater clubs but in the end Rolex clocks wasn't enough

But if i recall it correct, one club gave home gym to the refs. Juve gave them a Fiat but they all made a claim on that gift
dr hackenbush is offline  
post #17 of 60 (permalink) Old March 17th, 2017, 08:02
Rising Star
 
dpforever10's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2016
Posts: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniSamp View Post
Yeah, Facchetti alive would not be bad. He was a gentleman. I can't believe some (actually a lot of) Juventus fans vomit so much hatred on a person who was "clean". Even "naive" if you like. He was a model for any young football player and that is the reason why Moratti chose him as the chairman of Inter. Just compare the content of the calls of Facchetti and Moggi to Bergamo/Pairetto and you get the huge difference. They are like the white knight/cowboy and the black one.
Massimo De Santis:

"I declare that I have never, and I mean never, talked on the phone with Luciano Moggi and that I have never received an international SIM card from him. I am going to say more. I used to talk regularly with other football team executives. I was in contact with Facchetti and Meani. With Giacinto Facchetti I had an excellent relationship and I have to admit that in many circumstances he was very obsessive (…). Moratti is well aware of this. I am sorry I have to mention a person who passed away. I am available to make all my phone records public so that everyone will know that these contacts were real. Meani? We got in touch very often and it makes me laugh when he is treated as a delivery boy or a caregiver.”

As for the referee grid, that was the main issue with Moggi..former referees’ chief Bergamo:

“I never refused to talk about the probable grid composition (the grid used to randomly draw the referees and assign them to the different matches – Ed), which anyway needed to be discussed with Pairetto (the referees’ co-chief along with Bergamo – Ed), with all the other executives who made request. The habit of talking about the grid or about the referees to insert in the grid, I confirm once more, involved other team executives as well (among the others Facchetti and Meanii). I am not aware if Pairetto used to talk with others about this matter. And I point out that the grid composition was an “open secret” because the referees were certainly identifiable by the experts”.

Too bad the Inter wiretaps were released only after the statue of limitations...

David Endt: “Inter looks like a beautiful diva in blue and black, but in reality she is nothing more than a prostitute.”
dpforever10 is offline  
post #18 of 60 (permalink) Old March 17th, 2017, 08:05
Rising Star
 
dpforever10's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06 2016
Posts: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr hackenbush View Post
Cute. He tried to take the game to cheater clubs but in the end Rolex clocks wasn't enough

But if i recall it correct, one club gave home gym to the refs. Juve gave them a Fiat but they all made a claim on that gift
Again what you have is false and unproven accusations whereas the Rolex story was proven and documented.

David Endt: “Inter looks like a beautiful diva in blue and black, but in reality she is nothing more than a prostitute.”
dpforever10 is offline  
post #19 of 60 (permalink) Old March 17th, 2017, 08:46
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Nerazzurri4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2002
Location: ****ing overcrowded Egypt
Teams: Al Ahly | F.C. Internazionale | AZ
Posts: 49,435
Massimo Di Santis. Honourable referee. Man of integrity. An example of Impartiality.

Back in 01-02...


ما أخذ بالقوة لا يسترد إلا بالقوة
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZZ View Post
lol hossam lol...i think your the coolest bro one of the few ppl i like in this world

now thats three rants lol

i love u bro. yr good people
Nerazzurri4life is offline  
post #20 of 60 (permalink) Old March 17th, 2017, 09:26
Forum Manager
Xtratime Legend
 
Nerazzurri4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05 2002
Location: ****ing overcrowded Egypt
Teams: Al Ahly | F.C. Internazionale | AZ
Posts: 49,435
Lawyer: Juve deserved C Thursday 26 October, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Juventus lawyer Cesare Zaccone believes that club were fortunate to escape being demoted to Serie C for their part in Calciopoli.

The Old Lady’s board held an intense meeting in Turin this afternoon regarding the relegation of the team and their financial problems.

President Cobolli Gigli was present, as well as chief executive Jean-Claude Blanc, Zaccone and all the minor shareholders of the team.

The Bianconeri’s board was attacked by the shareholders for the club’s position in court during Calciopoli.

The shareholders believe that it was the wrong decision when they asked for Serie B, and admitted being guilty – but Zaccone clearly had a different take on things.

“Probably someone in this meeting doesn’t understand the situation we were in,” said the lawyer.

“The dossier that was given to us included so many infractions made by Luciano Moggi (pictured) and Antonio Giraudo, who were representing the club at the time.

“There wasn’t much to do considering their illegal actions, and Juventus was inevitably responding for them.

“Our situation was tragic, what could we do? We couldn’t defend Moggi or Giraudo.

“There were so many accusations against us and the obvious punishment was Serie C. So we asked for the Serie B without penalisation.”

Zaccone still thinks that Juventus made the best decision they could in the situation.

“We deserved Serie C, so being put in Serie B was a good result – we did it to make Juve survive,” he concluded.

Cobolli Gigli had little to say after the meeting, apart from offering a statement of defiance.

"I understand the shareholders, but we are trying our best to bring Juve back to the level we should be at," said the chief.

---

And yet we have rubentus fans pretending this was a conspiracy and Moggi was a victim. Laughable.

ما أخذ بالقوة لا يسترد إلا بالقوة
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZZ View Post
lol hossam lol...i think your the coolest bro one of the few ppl i like in this world

now thats three rants lol

i love u bro. yr good people
Nerazzurri4life is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Xtratime Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Try to avoid choosing short (like '1'), simple (like 'abcd') and easy to guess passwords (like a name of your favorite team, player, etc)! Complex and long enough passwords, that consists of random string of alphabet and numerical characters, are almost impossible to be stolen and misused.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome